Aquaculture is it our goal?

[smpolyp]

Aquaculture helps keep us from taking from the ocean,but if we feed the thought of it is ok it is just aquacultured were do we stand? I think educating people is the key. how can you do it?

Since I cant master cut and paste tonight and I spent a while answering this question on RC I will blatently link the thread http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...?threadid=7874
To answer the question as you posted it here(I think) it doesn't matter if its wild caught or maricultured, respect for the animals you adopt is the utmost concern. They had no choice in being brought into your homes so at least strive to provide the best environment possible

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I thought I was me, but we were wrong
email: geeflipr@internetcds.com

[Alice]

Hmmm...if by your post do you mean should we exercise the same care with our aquacultured animals as with our wild caught ones, the answer is an emphatic "yes". Just as I deplore the thought of people not caring as much about an animal because it was cheap (damsels, Xenia, etc.) so would I deplore the fact that people would not learn as much about the animals in their care because they were "cultured" and not impacting the environment with wild harvest.

Should the goal of every reef tank owner be propagation? Well, as was mentioned in a post on Reef Central, I don't see how we could help it, in at least some fashion, if the animals in our care are thriving. Sooner or later that Colt is going to get too big or you'll have mushrooms invading every nook and cranny and they'll have to go somewhere.

As for wild collection, the phrase that is bandied about so often these days is "sustainable harvest." The problem is, what exactly does that mean? Any wild collection is going to impact the natural environment in some fashion..some species more, some less. Practically wiping out the native population of a certain species and then "bringing it back" with tank raised species is not a solution. Tank raised species bring their own set of problems and diseases to the natural environment. I live in the Pacific NW where lumber was king...not so any more. Tree "farms" do not a forest make; nature lovers and forest product workers alike have suffered the consequences from that type of thinking.

As for education, I try to do that everyday on a small scale. I have a tank on my desk at work and there isn't a day that goes by that I don't field a question on it. Some people are more interested than others and want to know more than just what it takes to keep a piece of the ocean in a glass box. I try to teach responsibility at the LFS where I work. I have let my kids school classes come to see my tank at home and we've talked about the animals and their natural environment. My kids have such a greater understanding and appreciation for marine life now; we all give "classes" when we are at the beach and roaming the tidepools. I'm not out there on tour standing on a soap box but I try to do my part.

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Reefkeeping is my life; I can't afford a hobby too!

Reading the anemone question just a minute ago got me off on one of my tangents. Warning you have no seconds left to reach minimum safe distance before detonation
Anyone whos done any research on the care of anemones has no doubt been exposed to the "Anemones live hundreds of years in the wilds" theory. Personally I have not seen any conclusive evidence that supports that but I will grant that they do live a long time, exceeding the average life span of clowns and all the other animals that may host with them. If we assume for the sake of argument that a given anemone lives a hundred years and the clowns that host with it reach breeding age in say 2 years, that in itself is 50 generations of clowns denied a host. Evidence seems to support the fact that as anemone populations decrease in a specific area so will the numbers of clowns and other hosting animals.

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I thought I was me, but we were wrong
email: geeflipr@internetcds.com

[FishDaddy]

Doug's last post makes me think about the relationship between animals in our tank environs and the ocean from which they came. Clowns in the wild adopt anenome hosts for one main purpose: self protection. There are lots of bigger fish that would love to dine on Percula snacks but we carefully select fish and inverts for our aquariums that aren't supposed to eat each other. Most clowns will happily adopt a hairy mushroom or long polyped corals as a host though they really don't need the protection from predators (unless you also keep big Triggers in your reef )

We carefully select our animals for compatability by checking reference works and other reefers because we don't want a food chain operation in our tanks. It goes beyond merely selecting animals that don't kill our other animals but being conscientious also means not selecting animals that have poor chances of survival even without predation.

The anenome gets lots of attention on the boards and literature because of the popularization of the anenome/clown sybiosis but there are so many others, such as the beautiful Mandarin and Cleaner Wrasses that have virtually no chance of survival in most aquariums.

Back to the original topic of aquaculturing corals, the same thing applies. We carefully stock our tanks with "reef safe" critters so they won't eat our $$$ corals. In the wild, corals have all kinds of "reef unsafe" things to worry about yet they thrive when left alone by man. There is no more reason to buy an animal that will probably perish on its own than to put it in with a coral slurping fish.

For whatever reasons and regardless of who can be blamed for the decline of our coral reefs, public and government pressure is being brought to bear on the reef hobby to curtail imports and protect reef territories from collection. Aquaculturing will be needed in the future to maintain the supply of corals for our hobby tanks. For the immediate present, its still cheaper to bag it; tag it and fly it from halfway around the world to the local lfs than it is to set up large scale coral farms that can compete in the marketplace with wild collected imports. When gov't intervention occurs, the the marketplace will accept the higher costs and perhaps aquaculturing will become ecnonomically profitable.

There are really two issues underlying this discussion. First is the economic issue based on supply and demand. The second is perhaps the most important from a purely moral standpoint: we really shouldn't undertake to keep any animal that has slim or no chance of surviving our care.

I probably still haven't answered the original question but these are some of my thoughts.
Dick

[Raszagil]

Is aquaculture my "goal"?

No it isn't. My "goal" was and is to have a beautiful piece of the ocean in my bedroom. If I can help out other reefers by propagating my corals and sharing my good fortune, then I would be happy to do that.

Raszagil

[horge]

My goals are

1)to have a nice-looking tank for the house
2)to promote protection/understanding of the reefs
3)to home-prop some corals

The three are really separate "hobbies", and ultimately contradict each other.

[Aquaman]

The aquaculture of the majority of reef animals should be the long term goal for our hobby. However, it certainly isn't wrong to harvest from the ocean as long as there is data to support the fact that the ecosystem isn't harmed by that activity. Taking certain species from the reef ecosystem can have more damaging effects on these systems than other species, we should strive to stay away from harvesting these species and take only those which are less damaging. Taking young fish out of the wild instead of adults helps, or taking small SPS fragments instead of entire heads of acropora makes a huge difference. Also, the use of destructive techniques to harvest many of these animals should be stopped.

The goal should be to aquaculture as many animals as we can and take only the wild animals which have less of an effect on the ecosystem. Education is key.

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Aquaman

[gregt]

horge,

You've so easily hit on what I was thinking, but I could not find the words like you did. Excellent summary.

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-Greg
Greg's Aquarium Links

It seems a common theme here is a lot of people got into reef aquariums because they are really kewl looking. I suspect that probably a third and maybe more also, like my self were attracted by the challenge of keeping somethig awesome that most people hold in awe and regard as very difficult if not impossible to do. Some people are fortunate enough to have friends who were and influence and a help. A lot of people saw a reef tank at LFS or somewhere and took the plunge. After a rocky start a lot of people find BB's like this and the many others out there and then the education begins. I know once I got online and started reading Aqualink and reefs.org BB's I began to see my reef tank in a whole new light. I finally was able to see the reeftank in terms of a small, incomplete little ecosystem rather than a hodge podge of pretty creatures kept for my amusement. I was able to share the reef with my grandson and use it as a tool to help him understand environmental issues as a counter point to the propaganda dispenced at school.
Being from the pacific northwest and a former lumbermill worker it really makes me furious when my then 6 yr old grandson came home from school bummed out after being told that loggers and bulldozers etc are killing the planet, guess what the kids dad does for a living HAving the reef gave us an oppurtunity to discuss these and other issues and try to put it all in context for him.
I love this hobby and feel like I have helped in some small way to educate both newcomers and outsiders to the beauty of the tank and a better appreciation of the dynamics. As to the propigation issue at hand since I have mainly soft corals and such if importation was banned tommorow I would still be able to enjoy the hobby for a long while to come, by proppin what I have and trading with others who are doing the same

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I thought I was me, but we were wrong
email: geeflipr@internetcds.com

[FishDaddy]

Horge said:

1)to have a nice-looking tank for the house
2)to promote protection/understanding of the reefs
3)to home-prop some corals

I'll add my 4th:
To help satisfiy FishGirl's insatiable thirst for knowledge and nurture her love for all animals, especially aquatic types.

Oh, there might be a 5th reason for all of us........it keeps us off the streets and out of trouble!
Dick

[This message has been edited by FishDaddy (edited 10-21-2000).]

[Alice]

Hmmm, guess I never did post the reasons I got into this hobby in the first place

All during the "FW years" I'd yearned for a SW tank...not a reef tank (didn't know what it was then!) but just for the colorful fish.
When my middle son, who has ADD and learning disabilities, became so taken with anything marine, I decided it was time to look into a SW tank. I hit the web looking for info...found out more about reef tanks (I'd seen exactly one before going online and it was a miserable mess) and I was hooked! I sat here with my son looking at pictures on the monitor and he was so captivated that decided me on the spot and the hunt was on for info! When we first set the tank up, my son couldn't remember his ABC's, but he could name all the critters in the tank and a good many at the LFS

I didn't feel any moral dilemma at that point about wild collection or any of that, who knew? But since I have been involved in this hobby and this board my thinking has changed. The thing I still treasure the most about my tank is how it looks, how it makes me feel and how much my children enjoy it but I also feel a responsibility to my tank and what it represents that I did not when I first started.



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Reefkeeping is my life; I can't afford a hobby too!

[Aquaman]

Most aquarists are far too removed from the environmental problems facing the reefs to care much. Most hobbyists probably haven't even seen a natural reef! Like most of you have mentioned having a pretty aquarium is the prime goal. Besides, the supply of animals keeps coming in to the fish store, things can't be that bad, right?

I would hope at least that most hobbyists are concerned about the natural habitat of the animals they keep to a certain extent. I am not saying that I think all aquarists should be environmental activist who only buy captive bred organisms (not that that is bad either), but a greater concern for the wild habitat of the animals is important.

I try to have the reefs best interest at heart, although it would be hipocritical of me to pretend that I don't fall into the "out of sight out of mind" mentality most of the time. I have gone out of the way to buy captive propagated specimens but I also buy the stuff at the LFS, which I am not saying is wrong.

In the end the true cause of things destroying natural reefs have nothing to do with the hobby. If anything you will probably find more people with at least an awareness of these problems in our hobby than some guy off the street.


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Aquaman

[FishDaddy]

There's a group of reefers that we don't think about much. It is sometimes surprising to run into people buying corals that do not take advantage of resources on the internet. Those who do read and buy books are dealing with information that is sometimes many years old or rely solely on lfs for problem solving and coral care and don't have the opportunity to swap info with others that we have on the boards.
Dick

[Raszagil]

Originally posted by Aquaman:
In the end the true cause of things destroying natural reefs have nothing to do with the hobby. If anything you will probably find more people with at least an awareness of these problems in our hobby than some guy off the street.

Very, very, very, very true. Which is why I tend to avoid threads with a "WE ARE RAPING THE OCEANS" topic. The serious, threatening damage being done to the reefs have little to do with the aquarium hobby.

On one of the other threads that sported a shocking statistic the poster claimed the most serious damage to reefs was the saltwater hobby, and finally admitted to adding "curio" (sp?) or the collection of dead coral skeletons for decerations in with the aquarium hobby tolls numbers. Big difference.

If the only harvesting of the reefs (live rock rubble and anemones/coral/fish for the aquarium trade) I highly doubt there would be a problem at all.

As such, I don't have much of a guilt complex about owning a reef. I care about the reefs, and make sure that the animals I buy I can care for. But I just don't see how I can affect the real difficulties the reef faces...problems that are entirely out of my control.

Freaking out over my own actions (that do not threaten the reef) when I am the pebble upon the mountain doesn't do much. And when all the hair pulling, accusations, and emotional turmoil has passed, everyone goes back to their own thing with their reef. It's pointless.

(Just my feelings on the subject. Any and all flames and/or attacks upon my cyber person as a result of posting my thoughts on such a touchy topic will be ignored.)

Sara