Salinity Vs specific gravity & Temperature

[dickbic]

Just finished reading a nov 1997 article in Aquarium Frontiers regarding salinity and temperature of aquariums versus "the wild."

My question, why do I keep my tank at 1.022 S.G. at approximately 70 to 72 degrees measured with a hygrometer while the natural S.G. is substantially higher - 1.026 min.

Also, why keep the temp between 76 and 79 degrees, never above 80, while that is low for many/most areas in the world.

Although my tank looks great, I question why we are taught to maintain conditions that differ from natural.

Thanks

[Doug1]

Hmmmmm probably cause you were taught by sources that cling to outmoded thinking. For the last 2 years I have ran my tanks at 1.025-1.026 and 80 F. A lot of people dowith no problems. The lower SG and temp are used in lots of LFS to keep more livestock in small holding tanks. Thats another reason long slow drip acclimation is a good idea

------------------
I dont advocate holding marine creatures for ransom but......since you asked
Doug, plank owner
http://hellreef.homestead.com/index.html
www.thereeftank.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000001.html

[tdwyatt]

Dickbic:

I would think in terms of matching a particular microcosm when maintaining your tank. Think of the system in terms of a photograph in time for your microcosm, where your goal is to mimic as closely as possible the physical, chemical, and biological parameters of the environment you have chosen to copy. This would include not only those parameters of that environment, but the populations you select to inhabit your little slice of the ocean and the way thay are given nutrients and other inputs (ie lighting) for your microcosm. Most really successful systems use this method of development for their systems, and it extends all the way down the food chain (such that you have benthic infauna in your system as well as the top of the food chains...) Using this method, you could have a Red Sea reef-top tank where the salinity could be as high as 40 ppt with 84F temps and heavy water flow, or a Catalina island deep fore reef, with strawberry anemone, catalina gobies, 35 to 33 ppt salinity, and 72F water temps. It will all depend on what microcosm you wich to mimic. For the most part, most of the systems we refer to when speaking of "Reef" aquaria will be comfortable with temps at 80 to 82F, salinity around 35 to 37 ppt ("observed" sg depending of your ultimate temp) and current based on the location from which your microcosm is created (i.e., heavy from the reef top, slow for lagoonal tanks), but most often, what is more important than matching a particular number, is to maintain CONSISTANCY in the values that you select. What is more often a problem for most systems is not so much that the value for salinity is exactly 35 ppt vs. 37 ppt, but that the value, once selected, is maintained as a constant. Most fish can tolerate some changes in salinity, especially larger coastal fishes. Their osmoregulatory mechanisms are such that they have the ability to swim into even areas of fresh water (i.e., river mouths or the "invisible " rivers in the ocean near land). Most coastal fish have special apparati in their gills that allow them to be euryhaline ( the ability to make abrupt changes in salinity), and most fish in general can make these changes gradually, but a large number of the fish that live in deeper water, or that never include FW enviromments as part of their life cycle are stenohaline, and adjust poorly to changes in salinity. for the most part, our corals adapt to changes in salinity by acting like bags that follow osmotic rules of engagement, that is, they will swell up in hyposaline environments and shrivel in hypersaline environments (until their internal fliuds match the salinity of the environment they are in) Corals can, to some extent, adjust their internal salinity, but for the most part, have little ability to do so, and are very strongly affected by abrupt changes in salinity. This is why they need slow acclimatization to your tank (and also why some LFS's cant figure out why much of their livestock looks like hell when introduced to their holding systems). I honestly don't know to what extent different spp. of corals can regulate the osmolarity of their internal fluids, but I am sure they must be able to to some degree. The bottom line here is that regardless of what salinity you choose (within reason), the key is to maintain that salinity as consistantly as possible.

Maybe some of the others can shed a lottle more info on the osmoreguatory mechanisms of corals...

OK, my 2 cents worth...


------------------
Tom <"{{{{>(
(TDWyatt)
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -Plato

[dickbic]

Originally posted by Doug1:
Hmmmmm probably cause you were taught by sources that cling to outmoded thinking. For the last 2 years I have ran my tanks at 1.025-1.026 and 80 F. A lot of people dowith no problems. The lower SG and temp are used in lots of LFS to keep more livestock in small holding tanks. Thats another reason long slow drip acclimation is a good idea

[dickbic]

Originally posted by Doug1:
Hmmmmm probably cause you were taught by sources that cling to outmoded thinking. For the last 2 years I have ran my tanks at 1.025-1.026 and 80 F. A lot of people dowith no problems. The lower SG and temp are used in lots of LFS to keep more livestock in small holding tanks. Thats another reason long slow drip acclimation is a good idea

Many thanks your reply. I think I will slowly adjust salinity upwards with a small temp change to 78 to 80 next. I am wondering if my complete failure with bubbletips has been due to salinity??

[dickbic]

DOUG1
Many thanks your reply. I think I will slowly adjust salinity upwards with a small temp change to 78 to 80 next. I am wondering if my complete failure with bubbletips has been due to salinity??
dickbic

Originally posted by Doug1:
Hmmmmm probably cause you were taught by sources that cling to outmoded thinking. For the last 2 years I have ran my tanks at 1.025-1.026 and 80 F. A lot of people dowith no problems. The lower SG and temp are used in lots of LFS to keep more livestock in small holding tanks. Thats another reason long slow drip acclimation is a good idea

[dickbic]

Douq1
Many thanks your reply. I think I will slowly adjust salinity upwards with a small temp change to 78 to 80 next. I am wondering if my complete failure with bubbletips has been due to salinity??
dickbic

Originally posted by Doug1:
Hmmmmm probably cause you were taught by sources that cling to outmoded thinking. For the last 2 years I have ran my tanks at 1.025-1.026 and 80 F. A lot of people dowith no problems. The lower SG and temp are used in lots of LFS to keep more livestock in small holding tanks. Thats another reason long slow drip acclimation is a good idea

[dickbic]

Thanks for your reply. I will start to make small changes to higher salinity and temp within reason. Any ideas where I can find ideal conditions for fish? I have, or seem to have , good info on corals. (Dr. R Shimek).

Thanks again.

Dickbic

Originally posted by tdwyatt:
Dickbic:

I would think in terms of matching a particular microcosm when maintaining your tank. Think of the system in terms of a photograph in time for your microcosm, where your goal is to mimic as closely as possible the physical, chemical, and biological parameters of the environment you have chosen to copy. This would include not only those parameters of that environment, but the populations you select to inhabit your little slice of the ocean and the way thay are given nutrients and other inputs (ie lighting) for your microcosm. Most really successful systems use this method of development for their systems, and it extends all the way down the food chain (such that you have benthic infauna in your system as well as the top of the food chains...) Using this method, you could have a Red Sea reef-top tank where the salinity could be as high as 40 ppt with 84F temps and heavy water flow, or a Catalina island deep fore reef, with strawberry anemone, catalina gobies, 35 to 33 ppt salinity, and 72F water temps. It will all depend on what microcosm you wich to mimic. For the most part, most of the systems we refer to when speaking of "Reef" aquaria will be comfortable with temps at 80 to 82F, salinity around 35 to 37 ppt ("observed" sg depending of your ultimate temp) and current based on the location from which your microcosm is created (i.e., heavy from the reef top, slow for lagoonal tanks), but most often, what is more important than matching a particular number, is to maintain CONSISTANCY in the values that you select. What is more often a problem for most systems is not so much that the value for salinity is exactly 35 ppt vs. 37 ppt, but that the value, once selected, is maintained as a constant. Most fish can tolerate some changes in salinity, especially larger coastal fishes. Their osmoregulatory mechanisms are such that they have the ability to swim into even areas of fresh water (i.e., river mouths or the "invisible " rivers in the ocean near land). Most coastal fish have special apparati in their gills that allow them to be euryhaline ( the ability to make abrupt changes in salinity), and most fish in general can make these changes gradually, but a large number of the fish that live in deeper water, or that never include FW enviromments as part of their life cycle are stenohaline, and adjust poorly to changes in salinity. for the most part, our corals adapt to changes in salinity by acting like bags that follow osmotic rules of engagement, that is, they will swell up in hyposaline environments and shrivel in hypersaline environments (until their internal fliuds match the salinity of the environment they are in) Corals can, to some extent, adjust their internal salinity, but for the most part, have little ability to do so, and are very strongly affected by abrupt changes in salinity. This is why they need slow acclimatization to your tank (and also why some LFS's cant figure out why much of their livestock looks like hell when introduced to their holding systems). I honestly don't know to what extent different spp. of corals can regulate the osmolarity of their internal fluids, but I am sure they must be able to to some degree. The bottom line here is that regardless of what salinity you choose (within reason), the key is to maintain that salinity as consistantly as possible.

Maybe some of the others can shed a lottle more info on the osmoreguatory mechanisms of corals...

OK, my 2 cents worth...

[dickbic]

Thanks for your reply. I will start to make small changes to higher salinity and temp within reason. Any ideas where I can find ideal conditions for fish? I have, or seem to have , good info on corals. (Dr. R Shimek).

Thanks again.

Dickbic

Originally posted by tdwyatt:
Dickbic:

I would think in terms of matching a particular microcosm when maintaining your tank. Think of the system in terms of a photograph in time for your microcosm, where your goal is to mimic as closely as possible the physical, chemical, and biological parameters of the environment you have chosen to copy. This would include not only those parameters of that environment, but the populations you select to inhabit your little slice of the ocean and the way thay are given nutrients and other inputs (ie lighting) for your microcosm. Most really successful systems use this method of development for their systems, and it extends all the way down the food chain (such that you have benthic infauna in your system as well as the top of the food chains...) Using this method, you could have a Red Sea reef-top tank where the salinity could be as high as 40 ppt with 84F temps and heavy water flow, or a Catalina island deep fore reef, with strawberry anemone, catalina gobies, 35 to 33 ppt salinity, and 72F water temps. It will all depend on what microcosm you wich to mimic. For the most part, most of the systems we refer to when speaking of "Reef" aquaria will be comfortable with temps at 80 to 82F, salinity around 35 to 37 ppt ("observed" sg depending of your ultimate temp) and current based on the location from which your microcosm is created (i.e., heavy from the reef top, slow for lagoonal tanks), but most often, what is more important than matching a particular number, is to maintain CONSISTANCY in the values that you select. What is more often a problem for most systems is not so much that the value for salinity is exactly 35 ppt vs. 37 ppt, but that the value, once selected, is maintained as a constant. Most fish can tolerate some changes in salinity, especially larger coastal fishes. Their osmoregulatory mechanisms are such that they have the ability to swim into even areas of fresh water (i.e., river mouths or the "invisible " rivers in the ocean near land). Most coastal fish have special apparati in their gills that allow them to be euryhaline ( the ability to make abrupt changes in salinity), and most fish in general can make these changes gradually, but a large number of the fish that live in deeper water, or that never include FW enviromments as part of their life cycle are stenohaline, and adjust poorly to changes in salinity. for the most part, our corals adapt to changes in salinity by acting like bags that follow osmotic rules of engagement, that is, they will swell up in hyposaline environments and shrivel in hypersaline environments (until their internal fliuds match the salinity of the environment they are in) Corals can, to some extent, adjust their internal salinity, but for the most part, have little ability to do so, and are very strongly affected by abrupt changes in salinity. This is why they need slow acclimatization to your tank (and also why some LFS's cant figure out why much of their livestock looks like hell when introduced to their holding systems). I honestly don't know to what extent different spp. of corals can regulate the osmolarity of their internal fluids, but I am sure they must be able to to some degree. The bottom line here is that regardless of what salinity you choose (within reason), the key is to maintain that salinity as consistantly as possible.

Maybe some of the others can shed a lottle more info on the osmoreguatory mechanisms of corals...

OK, my 2 cents worth...

[Pegasis]

FWIW, I just finished raising my tanks temp from 77F to 80F. I had my SG at 1.024 and with the temp change the SG changed to 1.026 which is where I wanted it to be...that equals 35ppt salinity. I didn't have to change the actual amount of salt in the water at all. I did this over a weeks time.

When I acclimate new additions, I use a drip method and take between 45min and 1.5hrs depending on what it is that I am introducing and what the water "in the bag" started out as.

HTH

Take care,

Steven