Nitrates....

[fliberdygibits]

I have a well established FOWLR 29 gallon that as soon as I can get nitrates down will start to become a reef tank. My question is..... My water tests 0 amonia, 0 nitrite, ph 8.2 - 8.3, SG 1.024, 83 degrees, but nitrates STAY at about 10. Now I realize that this is MOSTLY ok for the fish, but that corals and other inverts would not be ok. I have about a 2 1/2 inch sandbed with a substrate, about 25 (more to come) lbs of LR and 3 small 1.5 inch damsels. 2 shrimp, 6-8 small hermits, 2 turbos and a sally lightfoot. What can be done (aside from water changes) to reduce nitrates. I was told that the substrate would do that, but it doesn't appear to be working and it's kinda late to remove it. Gimme all the options, cheap, spendy, everyhing. Thanks.

[billc]

how long has your tank been set up and what are your tank specs??? There is something in there keeping your nitrates up.. You just may need to give it more time..

[fliberdygibits]

I had to redo part of my rockscaping in jan/feb, but since then it's just been smooth sailing cept for the nitrates. As for the tank specs, as stated, they are:

Amonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
SG 1.024
PH 8.2-8.3
Alkaline hardness was at a "normal" level, but I don't remember the number now (at work) if it's necessary, I can retest again when I get home. It was such that I didn't take notice of it.
Temp 83f

29 gallon
1 Milennium 1000 HOB filter with media removed (so it's just waterflow)
2 maxi jet 400s
2.5 inch Sand bed with a plenum.
25+/- LR (more on the way)

could it just need a bit more time for the nitrate "handlers" to establish themselves?

Thanks

[Green Chromis]

Hi fiberdygibits, if you ar using a plenum system you will need to increase your sand bed depth to a mininium of 4" to give you a deep enough sand bed for denitrification of your water.

[fliberdygibits]

I am guestimating the depth cause I am 22 miles away right now with no ruler

[cyberchef]

Originally posted by fliberdygibits


2.5 inch Sand bed with a plenum.

For starters, your SB is not deep enough for a plenum system, you need at least 4" of SB with a Plenum for it to work properly. Also, what kind of substrate are you using for the SB (IE: grain size, crush coral, oolitic, sugar size, etc)? If your substrate is too fine the plenum will not work properly and it will filter down beyond the screen mesh covering on the plenum filling in the plenum water space making it useless. Plenums need 6 months to a year to fully kick in depending on how "live" the substrate was that you used to make your SB over your plenum. That "water space" needs to be completely void of any and all oxygen and any creatures/algaes that can produce oxygen or cause the introduction of oxygen by moving the SB and exposing the top of the plenum. Is the bottom of your tank covered/painted with anything to keep light out of the bottom of the tank? Also as I learned from Chris, the sides of the tank need to be covered, to the depth of the SB (4"), for the plenum to fully funtion properly by keeping light out of the sides of the SB (light grows algae, algae produces oxygen). Are you running a skimmer and if so, for how long each day? Are there any inhabitants in your tank yet and if so what are they? A plenum/DSB system needs to be "fed" by the waste of the tanks inhabitants in order for it to function, your current nitrates will act as "food" for the plenum for now till they are used up, but the lack of depth to the SB may be causing your plenum to act a producer instead of a user of nitrates. Hopefully Chris will see this thread and put in his comments and correct me if I've stated anything incorrectly or left out anything.

[billc]

Just a thought but you might want to add a hang on skimmer to reduce the nutrients thus lowering the nitrate level.. I could be way wrong and hopefully someone will come in and correct me if so..

[fliberdygibits]

It's pretty deep, but I never specifically measured it and it may be under the limit. I will check tonight. As far as the size, it was a mix (pre-bagged commercial stuff) that had some arogonite and some fine sand between sugar and play sand size. All the fine stuff has settled now and the larger crushed stuff is on top. It could ALSO be that it hasn't had enough time. There was a point when nitrates kept going up, now they hold steady at 10.... maybe given a few more months they will go the other way.

Thanks for all the input. I am going to do some "inspecting" tonight. The LFS I got it from failed to mention some of the fine points you have made here. He just said "put this eggcrate in, and dump in the sand" or something like that.

Thanks again.

[cyberchef]

fliberdygibits check out this thread and the qqq thread.

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...=&threadid=745

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...&highlight=qqq

[fliberdygibits]

Not substrate.... I meant to say "Plenum".....DUH!!!


Ok, so all of the above, except that I have a plenum.

[amateureefer]

wow, those are some seriously informative threads. now if someone could just take one more step back and paste me a thread telling me everything i needed to know to have any idea how to understand what i just spent two hours reading, than i might have the slightest idea of what i was just thinking about. thnx. dan

[cyberchef]

Originally posted by amateureefer
wow, those are some seriously informative threads. now if someone could just take one more step back and paste me a thread telling me everything i needed to know to have any idea how to understand what i just spent two hours reading, than i might have the slightest idea of what i was just thinking about. thnx. dan

I highly doubt there is a thread with everything but there may be a few that might help... lol If nothing else these shoud be able to answer some of your questions as well as create a few more... hehehe

Aticle by R Shimeck
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http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog...ek_090698.html

Sand Bed Archives
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http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/fo...=1000&x=11&y=5

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http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...ghlight=plenum

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...&threadid=3819

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...ghlight=plenum

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...ghlight=plenum

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...ghlight=plenum

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...ghlight=plenum

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...ghlight=plenum

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...ghlight=plenum

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...ghlight=plenum

[Green Chromis]

Hi Cyerchef, Ive been running Plenum systems on my tanks for over 2 yrs. I don't have the sides of the sand in the tank covered, so it's exposed to ambient light from the room and light from the tank, I noticed algae growing on the sand and you say this affects the preformence of the plenum bed because its adding oxygen to the lowwer levels of the bed. When we designed the plenum we left approx. 1.5" between the sides off the tank and the plenum grid that is filled with sand. Would this be enough depth to keep the light from entering the plenum grid through the sides of the tank or will the algae penetrate the sand and add excess Oxygen to the anoxic region of the plenum that would affect it's preformance. I set this system up after reading and Emailing Bob Goemans since it seemed one of the more natural ways to set up an aquarium. I know we can never create what nature does in the ocean but I will keep trying to keep my system as close to what nature does as posible. I also use a skimmer and read the previos post regarding this. One more question if you don't mind, does a refugium affect the way a plenum systen is suppose to work since a plenum system is suppose to be a nutrient poor enviorment and a refugium will add nutrients to the system. Thanks for your help.

[fliberdygibits]

I should point out that my egg-crate does not go all the way to the edges of the tank. They are about 2 inches inside each side of the tank, so light shouldn't be reaching the plenum it'self

[Jimbo]

Hi,

Lighting can affect nitrates drastically, adding more light will bring them down. On one of my old tanks, I had 8 NO bulbs and nitrates ran around 15, when I added two 175 watt metal halide my nitrates fell to < 1. No substrate in my tank at the time, just LR.

Also you can add a refugium (low cost rubbermaid container), lighted by a couple of spiral lamps.