breeding bangaii cardinal fish....

[mtnreefer]

Hi Everyone... just wondering how to sex bangaii cardinals and if anyone had any pointers on breeding them? spawning habits, courtship, substrate preferences, etc... My first and most important ? is how to tell the males from females. any info is greeeeeaaaatly appreciated.

[Harpo]

OK, this is right up your alley Daniel.


Bill

[Mrs Smith]

Heh... I've got a brood ready to pop out any day now. I thought it was going to be this weekend, but he's holding longer. (Which is fine with me!)

Males from Females? You come up with the answer to that one, fill me in on it, and we'll take it right to the bank.

That means that there is no good, reliable way to tell.

Male + Male = one will kill the other.

Male + Female will often pair off - but it might take awhile.

Female + Female will pretty much ignore each other.

The best advice I can give you is to sit and watch them for as long as you have time for. You're looking for two that don't really ever leave each other's sides, are healthy, and may be dominant. (I accidentaly picked up two non-dominant males once that stuck together because they were getting picked on.)

I've had decent luck sexing them in my tank by observing behavior, but really, it's a guessing game.

As for breeding them, you just get a mated pair and don't worry about it. The female is the aggressor (IME), and will shimmy backwards along his flank when she's "in the mood." She mates with him, dumps the eggs in his mouth and goes off for a drink. He swims around with eggs and then babies in his mouth for 24-30 days. Since he doesn't eat during this time, it's quite possible for him to starve to death if she gets him to mate again right off the bat for several broods.

Banggais are great community fish and will breed anywhere. If, however, you want to raise the babies, there are many, many dangers in a reef where the little ones are looked at as a great snack. I have a separate tank set up for my pair because of this.

Raising the fry is a whole other thread and a bit more complicated, but I hope that answered some questions. Feel free to ask more as they dawn on you.

Danielle

[mtnreefer]

Are the females usually larger? and is the longer 2nd dorsal fin on the male that obvious? These are 2 traits of bangaii's that I just finished reading about.
Thanks for the answers, this site is so helpful.
I had the toadstool that was not well a couple of weeks ago and you replied then, well the update is I had to frag it, and now I'm just sort of waiting around for any survivors. I came in from work and it had really wasted away...
point being thanks for all the input. Maybe one day I will know something and can help someone else out!!!

[mtnreefer]

better learn to spell it before I try to breed it, huh?

[yrachmael]

I went crazy at first trying to sex my Bangaiis. But the guidelines are pretty good. Aside from the dorsal fin being longer the males mouth is REALLY squared off compared to the female's, whose curve tends to mirror the curve of her upper nose.

My male is significantly bigger than my new female, which may be why she hasn't initiated any mating behavior yet,...she's only introduced three weeks ago.

Of my fries I can't see any difference yet and they've been weened onto frozen dalphina for a month.

I am interested in exchanging info, pics suggestions with anyone on breeding Bangaii's.

[JennM]

yrachmael and mtnreefer, WELCOME to TRT!

My female banggai was larger, and has a large streamer on her dorsal -- I recently lost my male (long story, see my thread on Flatworm eXit for the sordid tale...) They were a breeding pair, but I was never able to capture the offspring, all the PIGS in my reef ate them......

Jenn

[yrachmael]

Thanks for the info...almost all data I'm getting is subject to "Oops, the exception is..." I'm taking an on line class with Scott Michael and just yesterday he related Bangaii's have been seen snuggling up to anenome's and plate coral! Conclusions ?
None really, maybe the density was such that these were the only protected areas left. I'm certain age vs a vs size has a major role. Also, longer dorsal streamers could very well be a sign of alpha dominence, similar to what I saw with my Moorish Idols.
Anyway, I'm interested in any and all case information, pictures and videos of mating and carrying behavior. I would like to assemble as much knowledge about Bangaii as possible...I'm not writing a book..just fascinated by these little darlings and determined to make tank raised Bangaii's the only economic choice on the market.

[Joel]

(I accidentaly picked up two non-dominant males once that stuck together because they were getting picked on.)

They could have been ga... I mean really happy together.

better learn to spell it before I try to breed

Yeah , you don't want kids who can't spell either.

My Bangaii pair has produced 3 broods that I know of. The first I found out about when there were only 8 or so left (other fish ate the rest), the second I salvaged 43, I think, but they all died between 13-16 days (probably my fault from too small a tank and infrequent water changes), and the third we had 35 babies of which I only have 1 left (it is in a 29 by itself the rest were eaten by a penguin 330 and a CPR Bak-Pak). Any way be prepared for a lot of work if you do 1)get a pair, 2)they mate, 3)the father carries them to term, 4)you can catch the babies before the other fish do, 5)you have a rearing tank ready for them. 6)you do regular water changes and feed them small enough food to start out with. GOOD LUCK

[Mrs Smith]

My pair are pretty indistinguishable - they are pretty much the exact same size, and both have slight dorsal banners. He is a little more shy than she is, but I can only tell them apart by their spot-markings. Each fish has a unique pattern of flank spots, and the patterns were how I identified the babies.

I lost several broods at about 13-16 days also, to the "baby banggai heart attack thing." From the reading I did, I gather that it was from underdeveloped nervous systems due to the low nutritional content of baby brine. After weaning my last batch to mysis about day 10, I didn't have any problem with that.

And wouldn't you know it, he dropped the batch just a few days shy. Sigh. So close!

(Don't worry too much about the spelling - I've seen in many different ways. We all knew what you were talking about.)

Danielle

[Yoshi-22]

i would like to add one or two bangaii's in my tank, how long should i wait? Do they need specific water conditions?



Thanks
Brandon

[Ray1214]

How often are the water changes? I have seen too many threads with "infrequent water changes". Are we talking daily water changes or weekly? I do Weekly water changes (10 percent) of my dwarf seahorse tanks but monthly on my reef tanks.)

[Mrs Smith]

It depends. If they are going into a bare 10-20, treat it as you would a Q-tank. Also realize that you'll be feeding them 2-3 times a day, so the waste builds up very quickly.

On the other hand, I use a fully cycled, 29 with a very mature 4" DSB and LR. Although it's harder to catch the babies when they're grown, the biological filtration has taken everything I've thrown at it. I've also got a good clean-up crew in there. Thus, I do minimal water changes with that setup.

Yoshi,
Banggais are great reef fish, and as long as the tank is cycled, they'll be fine. Just pick out one or two that look healthy, and stick together at the LFS. I don't remember your setup offhand, but as long as you aren't already overstocked, one or two Banggais should be fine. Just realize that they may not eat flake. I've never had one take it, regardless of how often I offer it. You might get lucky, but be aware of it.

Danielle

[Yoshi-22]

thank you Mrs.Smith, i feed my clowns brine anyway, but the clowns and the bangaii will get along right, i have a maroon, cinnamon, two percs in a 75 gallon. But maybe i will get one to start off, im not really looking for a pair, just to have one is pretty col, the first time i saw them i was very impressed, im not going to have a reef, just live rock and fish. The system im using is called the HANDY sytem. Pvc pipe on the botton, Eggcrate on top fully rapped in Screen, covered with 25 inches of i think its fine argonite, i dotn remember, im at school so, but i think it is fine, then screen again, and top of that i have 2 inch layer of Course Argonite. then about roughly 80 pds of live rock, im not sure.

Thanks
Brandon

[Mrs Smith]

Don't take this the wrong way, but brine is really a lousy nutritional choice. It's fine for treats, and it's about all that will fit into baby banggai mouths, but isn't the best choice for food.

Try looking for frozen mysis or other, meaty foods. Your fish will thank you.

And yeah, a banggai should be fine with clowns.

Danielle