Bangaii question?

[Big Dave]

I have had a pair of Bangaii's in my 135 for about 8-9 months now. They have, for the most part, kept their distance from each other. Not fighting or nipping at each other at all but just kept in their own area. I have noticed though, in the last few days they are hanging out together, just hovering right next to each other. There still isn't any fueding going on, but what does this mean. Could they have just found each other and hooked up now? I know we have a couple of Bangaii 'experts' here that have had success breeding or at least mating. I couldn't find much info in the archives so I thought I would just post my question!
So, any habit or moods or whatever you noticed when your Bangaii's paired up would be great. One thing I did notice was one of them was puffing up its' mouth, kind of flexing it. I know they mouth brood(sp) but didn't notice anything in there. Could this be a sign that they may be getting ready for something in the near future? Thanks for the help!

-Big Dave

[Minnreefer]

When Brooke gets time, I will have her post.

It is a good thing that they are getting along. If one has a puffy mouth he might, just might be pregnant, but they could also just be both of the same sex and finally "talking" to each other.

HTH

Jon

[reefcam]

Dave,

IMHO, that's a good thing. I have a pair at home that breed too early in their life, IMO. They have had 1 batch in the last 12 months, but I don't expect any more until later this year. Mainly due to their age. The pair I have at home was breed at home.

I'm not sure how big your bangaiis are but keep an eye on them. You may be surprise on morning to see the male with a mouth full of eggs. As far as sexing, I haven't been able figure it out. Some have speculated and say to look at their fins, but I've also read from the expert retracting their statement after years to trying to determine the sex.

I think they are like Clown fish and will change sex as the pair matures. I've always have pairs without trying to pair them up. Now either I'm good at this or **** lucky. I'm going with they change sex. Then what do I know.

FMarini @ Reef Central has articles on Breeding Bangaiis. He moderates the Fish Breeding forum over there.

[Big Dave]

Hey Jim - I'd rather be lucky than good too! Who knows man, reefing is like some theory that gets proof of one thing, and then 2 years later there's proof of the exact opposite. Nature in general evolves and changes. Adapt and overcome, right?

Jon - I'll look for Brookes post. Maybe she has some more insight as well.

I'll go check out the breeders forum over at RC if I can remember my password! Thanks

-Big Dave

[sally]

Unlike clownfish the Bangaii's do not change sex. It's hard to say whether you have a pair or not until they actually breed. IMO there is no way to distinguish sex. You may have a pair or you may have two females. When two females are introduced together they will get along. Two mature males will fight. So....you either have two females or a pair. They usually begin to breed at about 8 months of age. I've paired up several pairs and have raised over 100 bangaii's. My pair has had 9 successfull broods but I wasn't successful in catching all the fry. Were these wild caught or captive raised? Just wondering if you knew how old they are.

[reefcam]

8 months seems a bit soon, as my current set are almost 7 months old and they are reaching 1/2" long. I've had over a dozen broods over the 2 years, my first pair had babies almost monthly. The male only had 1 week to recover before finding more eggs in his month. My current pair is about 1.5 years old and they are just starting to breed. Are my babies not growing fast enough?

By the way Sally, what do you feed your fries?

And have you tried catching the male just before he lets the babies go? I done this multiple times and when I do get a chance I'm able to call 100% of the babies. It's the survival rate that declines.

[Big Dave]

Well, another question - when you guys had your Bangaiis breeding, were they basically 'joined at the fins' - next to each other, or did they just seem to cross paths whenever? I asume my pair is at 1.5 years cause they were about an inch long when I got them and have noticablly grown. I'll have to sit and watch for a while tonight and be ready with the camera. When the male first carries the eggs, is this something that is noticable? I figure the eggs must grow some before hatching, so could maybe the flexing of his mouth be shifting the eggs around? Or even just stretching out? Tonight I feed the fish, so I'll see if he eats at all too.

[reefcam]

The pair I have just hangs around each other. As far as rubbing fins...that's a bit kinky for me Seriously, I haven't noticed that behavior. As far as how you know if the male has eggs in his mouth. His mouth, at first, will look a little enlarged. But a sure sign is if he stops eating. Then after the eggs have hatched, he'll open his mouth a little where you will be able to see the fry's.

[Mrs Smith]

The current pair I'm "encouraging" is about a year old, and the male has carried several times, but not to term yet. (So close this last time...) In any case, my pair are pretty much always together.

IMHO, sexing is near-impossible, although I'm getting pretty good at guessing (by sitting and observing behavior, etc.). Still, you can't be sure until somebody turns up pregnant. I agree with the others that you either have a pair of females, or a M/F pair.

When he's pregnant, his mouth will poof out noticeably, depending on how far along and how many eggs he's got in there. And, obviously, he won't eat. If it's his first brood, he may very well not carry to term, so you have time yet.

FWIW, I feed my fry baby brine shrimp 3x a day and start weaning them to Mysis (by offering shaved bits) ASAP, hopefully having them on to the healthier stuff completely by day 15. Of course, I haven't been doing this as long as Sally, and I'd have a few more broods under my belt if it weren't for that stupid ice storm, but that's what's worked for me.

Good luck,
Danielle

[sally]

I feed my fry baby brine shirmp and then at 2-3 weeks I wean to frozen mysis (shaved) . I think it is very evident when the cardinal is holding eggs....his mouth will have a bulldog appearance ...believe me you will know. Also, the mating ritual goes on for hours even as long as two days (this is my experience). The female will pursue the male and do this "shimmy" on each side of him on and off all day long. One of my offspring held eggs at 6 months of age, although he did not carry to term. My pair pretty much hung out most of the time. When the male is carrying he will be very reclusive. Good luck.

[sally]

Just wanted to share a picture of my 6 month old bangaii that is holding eggs. I have kept 7 of my brood to grow out and I was suprised to see that one is holding already. They were born 9/5 and are still very small yet. They are barely an inch from tip to end of tail. The 7 still all get along and the one carrying only hides if I come to the tank or have my hands in the tank. I will be very surprised to see if he carries to term or how many he has if he does. I've always read that once a pair forms they will alienate the others. In this case that's not so since they all hang out together.

[sally]

Here is a picture of the father of the one pictured above. It's hard to tell by my pictures but the offspring are about 1/3 the size of the adult parents. This male is carrying too.

[Joel]

here's my male, they haven't had babies since last Sept though, any way to re-initiate mating?

[reefcam]

Must be that time of the month as mine has baby in his mouth too.