What is natural?

[photobarry]

In most any long reef related discussion you eventually have someone compare some process in their reef tank with what happens in nature. This comparison is generally used to support a given keeping strategy.

The topic for discussion is: How do natural processes compare to what is going on in our tanks? What natural systems make good models for what we see in our tanks (hint: not necessarily reefs)? Do we want "nature" in our tanks? If so, why? And if not, why? Several recent Think Tank threads have good information that could relate to these questions. Once Spanky gets his beauty sleep he'll chime in with some more points to discuss.

[gregt]

I posted this to another thread recently, and although it's bent towards DSB discussion, there's a lot in it that applies to this discussion, IMO.

I think it takes an incredible amount of egotism to believe that we actually have the power to create a system that is flawless and will work indefinitely. The balances of an ecosystem as complex and diverse as a reef are beyond calculation. It's as bad (or worse) than predicting the weather.

Nature itself does not keep balances indefinitely. There's not an ecosystem in the world that hasn't crashed at some point in the geological timeline. Even in recent geological history reefs have declined, died off completely, and restarted and thrived again without any impact from us at all.

It's natural for a system to become out of balance. Sometimes they must completely crash before achieving balance again.

To assume that we can control a system this diverse is folly, IMO. The best shot we have is to keep the system as simple as possible, or realize that things will not magically stay in balance. A reef tank is an incomplete, inaccurately designed replica of an ecosystem. No matter how much we try we will never duplicate a real reef environment. To make matters worse, the environment we are trying to duplicate is already on a knife edge even in nature.

[photobarry]

That's a wonderful start to this discussion. Especially the last paragraph. What you said can be applied to much more than just DSB's.

[Spanky]

Spanky got a pair of neons this afternoon for the tank!

Ah hum, now back to the subject at hand. I think a little back ground on all this natural/nature stuff is in order first.

When Lee first came out with his "natural" system, I think a certain amount of that got carried away and taken to mean "nature". Let's face it, natural and nature sells, especially when you're talking pet industry. But then that's easy to pull off when people have a big misconstrued notion of what nature is and what nature can and cannot do. Lee only meant his natural systems didn't rely on mechanical means to support them. They work, they just don't support much and even he admitted the biggest downfall of his systems was that people kept trying to put way too much in them.

Then you have all these hobby gurus selling "natural" and "nature". I still tickles me to no end to see someone promote a certain methodology and then back it up with things like "nature/natural" and then demand that their systems out perform anything in "nature".

[Awestralian]

Very well said by Gregt, and i think the statements greg made is why there is always so much debate in how to do things the 'right' way, and why there are so many differing opinions of how things can/should be done.

[gobywankenobi]

i liken the reefkeeping to a japanese garden... has anyone any experience with these?

the basic concept behind a japanese garden is the idea of "controlled chaos". it is a "garden" per se, but it is better deemed a "miniaturized" nature. the japanese gardener accepts that he cannot make the rain fall, nor the sun shine, but he can arrange the elements in a fashion of symbiosis. a true japanese garden (have you ever noticed?) looks kind of ordinary, a bit unkempt. but on closer inspection, you begin to see how every plant is perfectly placed, every stone leads to the next. too much of one thing or not enough of another and it looks "unnatural". there is no plastic in the japanese garden, no odd array of bright colors (all complimentary). the only man made things are few and made from stone, wood, etc. it is said that the best japanese gardener would either be a boy or an old man. the boy has too many other things to do, always somewhere else to be --and so the garden is not over-raked, over watered. the old man is tired and not as strong, and so the garden is does not suffer from too much attention, too much pruning.

so it is with our reef tanks. the trick is the patience. doing what our tanks NEED, and not what WE want. (how many times have you been to the LFS: 'oh! i like that bright red one!' knowing full well...)

i am sure we would all agree... how much better, healthier, our tanks would be and look if we:

--harbored fish and plants from the same native area
--did not over-stock
--did not over-feed
--let them grow on their own without our encouragement
--and kept our **** arms out of the water!

[tims]

well to go into what is and what is not nature or natural that could take years.
I think a lot of us ( at least me) try for a natural looking tank, using devises to keep it a live. it means a lot to my memorys as a kid and being in the keys alot. even though i can not reproduce natural reef or part of the ocean it self , i try to do what i can to get that close ( knowing that i will never hit the mark).
if we are really going for a natural looking tank then where did the LR come from and does everything else in the tank from the same area?, but since it is a closed system never to see mother nature does it really matter?

these are just the things in my head.....

[DogB]

Originally posted by gregt
To assume that we can control a system this diverse is folly, IMO. The best shot we have is to keep the system as simple as possible, or realize that things will not magically stay in balance. A reef tank is an incomplete, inaccurately designed replica of an ecosystem. No matter how much we try we will never duplicate a real reef environment. To make matters worse, the environment we are trying to duplicate is already on a knife edge even in nature.

Well said Sir!

P.

[Pez Vela]

I do not think any of us can state it any better than Greg. Well done. I would like to add something simply from a hobbyist viewpoint.

I think we all try our very best to simulate what we have seen on a coral reef dive or in a well photographed reference book. The reasons are obvious. That to mimic nature's underworld aquascape, mystique & beauty using live rock, sand, corals, fish etc... to create a "contrived" ecosystem for the benefit of our appreciation and that of the inhabitants. The same way most wild animal parks do their best to create natural environments for their animals.

As Greg said, duplicating a real reef environment is impossible and it it gets more complex everyday with the addition of new reef products. I think the reason people try and use the natural elements in their reef aquariums is for the pure purpose of likeness & replication from a visual standpoint. I use them for what I believe are logical reasons and my tanks have flourished to the extent a captive psuedo ecosystem is capable.

"When was last time you walked along a nice white, sandy beach, adjacent to a tropical atoll/reef in the indo-pacific; looked down and said, what lovely aragonite."

[eazyreef]

I think gobywankenobi has nailed it on the head. Just what the tank needs, and no more. This is what I am trying (most unsuccessfully at the moment) to do.

We all need to strive for "controlled chaos", which is very close to the natural order.

www.eazyreef.com

[jeepjon]

I have found that my best tanks are always when I let them go on their own for a bit without my everyday testing and maintaining....usually when I am busiest with school to do the bare minimum is when my tanks look their best (they are allowed to exist on their own). It is a delicate balance...do too little, and they lose control and entropy takes over! It's funny that nobody has mentioned entropy yet...the fundamental law/belief that everything goes toward chaos...or should I say simplicity? Isn't keeping a reef merely fighting with entropy to the point where things look the best, and nothing more?