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09-01-2003, 02:31 PM
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#1
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senior member
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Walnut Grove, SC, USA
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Lynn Margulis' theory vs Charles Darwin
BTW, speaking of Symbiogenesis, there seems to be a lot of literature that says Evolutionary progress and diversity has to be either Darwinian selection (competition and survival of the fittest) or Lynn Margulis' theory of Symbiogenesis (gaining ecological advantage through mutualism/cooperation) and that one is mutually exclusive of the other...
Any opinions to whether corals are the next step in symbiogenesis (starting with primitive cyanobacter infecting primitive eukaryotes) vs their potential as blatant competitors, in SPITE of the presence of Symbiodiniium spp.??? If so, how do we account for the azooxanthallate corals? Food chains in General? Just another ecological niche?
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Tom <"))))>(
(TDWyatt)
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -Plato
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09-01-2003, 05:14 PM
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#2
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The Border Collie Mod
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: right now? in my chair
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I don't think that they are mutually exclusive at all.
A pair, triplet, etc can have just as good of an advantage as a single. Sometimes it takes a pair, etc to make it, sometimes not.
Sometimes being a pair or more can be a disadvantage.
I think you have a niche, that has certain parameters, and something will take advantage of it. For all practical purposes, corals have filled a niche that higher plants fill on land.
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09-01-2003, 08:07 PM
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#3
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senior member
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My thoughts on the subject parallel this, why do you think that folks think that ist has to be one of the other? I would think that these are both means to the same end.
Well, there is that thing about some folks have to always be right, but then again, that has its own little niche for researchers... LOL!!!
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Tom <"))))>(
(TDWyatt)
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -Plato
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09-01-2003, 08:46 PM
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#4
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The Border Collie Mod
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Makes just as much sense to me too.
What if it was Darwinism that decided that you and I had a better chance of surviving if I cooked and you cleaned?
I got to pick first Tom LOL
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09-01-2003, 09:51 PM
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#5
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senior member
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Location: Walnut Grove, SC, USA
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ROTFLMAO!!!
Heh!!! It will come down to mutialism vs niche survival if the choice is clam "chowdah" heh heh heh!
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Tom <"))))>(
(TDWyatt)
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -Plato
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09-02-2003, 12:27 AM
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#6
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senior member
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Tom <"))))>(
(TDWyatt)
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -Plato
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09-02-2003, 12:53 AM
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#7
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senior member
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Tom <"))))>(
(TDWyatt)
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -Plato
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09-02-2003, 01:34 PM
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#8
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Little Fishy
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 290
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I dunno this whole Marguli's thing smacks of liberial ideals laced with socialism 
Honestly though Tom I haven't had a chance to read her stuff in depth yet. I think right now folks are huddled up reading and waiting for someone to blink.
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Give a man a fish he eats for a day, Teach him to fish and he sits in a boat all day and drinks beer!
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09-02-2003, 03:18 PM
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#9
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Shark
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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BTW, speaking of Symbiogenesis, there seems to be a lot of literature that says Evolutionary progress and diversity has to be either Darwinian selection (competition and survival of the fittest) or Lynn Margulis' theory of Symbiogenesis (gaining ecological advantage through mutualism/cooperation) and that one is mutually exclusive of the other...
They certainly are not exclusive of each other as far as I can tell. The formation of symbioses are a perfect example of natural selection in favor of an organism(s).
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"The cultured might call him heathenish, This man of few words, because his one care is not to interfere but to let nature renew The sense of direction men undo." Lao Tzu
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09-02-2003, 03:21 PM
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#10
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Shark
Join Date: Jun 2001
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AND, it allows for a piggyback ride: if a host organism is selected, then the symbionts also usually get selected.
In fact, the formation of the symbioses may be a catalyst to evolution, which is what is on the minds of many biologists at the moment. Tom, you should see this right away, being so familiar with McConnaughey's hypothesis on Ca-proton exchange calcification.
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"The cultured might call him heathenish, This man of few words, because his one care is not to interfere but to let nature renew The sense of direction men undo." Lao Tzu
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09-02-2003, 03:32 PM
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#11
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Stress Monger
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09-02-2003, 06:45 PM
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#12
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The Border Collie Mod
Join Date: Feb 2001
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09-02-2003, 06:50 PM
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#13
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Little Fishy
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: NYC
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Your dating yourself here spanky.
Mmmmmm JP Morgan
" Your cheap, I admire that in a woman"!
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Give a man a fish he eats for a day, Teach him to fish and he sits in a boat all day and drinks beer!
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09-03-2003, 12:50 AM
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#14
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senior member
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Quote:
Originally posted by galleon
AND, it allows for a piggyback ride: if a host organism is selected, then the symbionts also usually get selected... ...In fact, the formation of the symbioses may be a catalyst to evolution, which is what is on the minds of many biologists at the moment...
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Totally agree on this, I just don't see the logic behind someone deciding that it has to be one or the other, I think that there is a mutualism between these two theories... I personally think that the driving force behind exploitation of nich environments is via mutualisms and the true strength of them is what makes many organisms either adaptable or superior to the previous forms of that organism: and that this may be the real driving force behind Darwinism.
1st, second third levels of endosymbionts, so interesting that this occurs in something we like to study. I feel that this is the reason we still have corals after so many mass extinctions. Wonder if we can work Dr. Veron's work into this???
...again, 0ne hand washes the other.
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Tom <"))))>(
(TDWyatt)
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -Plato
Last edited by tdwyatt; 09-03-2003 at 12:53 AM.
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09-16-2003, 09:31 PM
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#15
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Big Fishy
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ny
Posts: 737
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they are both correct, one is an expansion of in incomplete theory
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