Are waterchanges really needed?

[galleon]

"I am surprise Chris (Galleon) hasn't chirpped up in a big way on this one..."

Jerel told me I should stop getting so excited

[SouthernReefer]

i stick with regular water changes, and i run a diatom filter on my reef every other month or so to recondition the reeftank water. i'm sure that any hobbiest that has an established reef tank up and running, with years if experience, would be more apt at just maintianing a stable water collumn than someone, like me, who is still gaining experiences would be more apt to sticking with water changes, until gaining a full grasp of what is actually occuring in the tank itself. imo, if you start to do less and less water changes, you must really have a good understanding of what you are doing. jmho!

[SPC]

Originally posted by mnreefman
does fw exit fall from the sky?

I don't understand this? What is fw exit?

why is it that some people who have a cheap set up ($) wise can have a great tank and no problems, but yet the most precise people can have a hard time..

What do you mean by a cheap setup, please explain your defintion a bit more.
Do these people keep SPS corals? The people that I know, that don't run a skimmer for example, always do water changes.
Steve

[SteveNichols]

My 10 gallon has been running for 3 years with no skimmer and no water changes. It has corallimorphs, sarcophyton, euphyllia, and echinopora. I run a SB, not deep. All water tests that are normally performed read normal. (IF you really don't know what that means, I hope ypu haven't put water in the tank yet ) I have had to frag all but the echinopora. It has only been in the tank for a month and I got a captive prop frag. I do run carbon one week a moth because of the softies. It has a blue devil damsel. I add seachem Ca and alk with make up water.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by SteveNichols
It has a blue devil damsel.

here lies the answer, you understand what a good bioload is for a tank! with a bioload like that you can get a way with less water changes.

with a tank of that size whenever you replace the salt due to creep you are replenishing the traces. i small scoop of salt does a lot in a 10g tank.

how often do you need to add salt?

G~

[mojoreef]

Well you know I am kinda torn on this one. As most folks know I dont do them. Well on purpose anyway. But in truth I do believe in them. It all depends on way you are doing them. If it is for replenishig trace elements I dont think they are that good of an idea. Basically what you are doing is reling on a ASW mix for your chemicals instead of using other means (so really half dozen of one and 6 of another) and concidering most salt mixes dont have the dead on or elevated levels we like to run, it kinda makes not doing it the better deal.
The best reason I can see someone doing water changes is to dilute poluttion in the tank. And that is only if they dont have other methods of doing it. For me I add trace elements on a constant basis using kalk and a reactor. For polution I have several methods to condition and clean the water.

Mike

[SPC]

Good morning Mike,

You stated that you have several methods to condition and clean the water. Would you explain what they are, and exactly what each does as far as removing PO4, DOM, etc...
Steve

[Toadfish]

Let me go on the record saying that I believe in water changes, however, it seems to me that through the natural evaporative process that you would be effectively "changing the water". If you scrape the excess residue of salt and place it back into the system along with supplementation additives. I believe this would suffice. Through biological filtration the water is constantly cycling it's self. There are no guarantees in biology and in this hobby there are no absolutes. The day that the rules cannot be bent is the day I get out, because part of the fun of this is the experimentation.

[foobuddha]

I'm a believer in water changes. Mostly from the standpoint that when I create the reef storm, I can remove alot of detritus out of the water column. However, I don't have a set schedule for wc's, I let the critters tell the story. If something isn't opening as much as usual, or if the water just doesn't look nice and clear, I'll do 20% change or so. Average change every 4-6 weeks.

I suppose it is something like voodoo, but I think the storm treatment followed by a waterchange really helps. All anecdotal evidence though.

[mojoreef]

You stated that you have several methods to condition and clean the water. Would you explain what they are, and exactly what each does as far as removing PO4, DOM, etc...

Ah Steve you always make me work
. Ok so for removal of detritus and cleansing of water.
> Massive flow which keeps the detrtus in the water column. 10000 gph on closed loops and 3000gph on a 1 1/2 spraybar under and behind the rock.
>Etss 2500 skimmer run by a 1/2 hp (70gpm) this takes out pretty much everything detritus wize that is in the water.
>200 watt of UV run through 3 individual towers at around 600gph. This gives the fish a nice hot meal, and takes care of most of the nasties in the water column.
>A dual chamber (4' tall x 8 inch diameter) calcium reactor. Pours effluent out at a rate of a full 3/8' hose.
>I drip analytical grade kalk at a rate of 10 gallons a day.
>I bloww the rocks (but they are always clean) and then vacuum the 1 inch CC substraight once a month, dont get alot though.
> I run a 3 chambered carbon fillter canister for about half the month. about 600GPH.
>I run a 110 gallons worth of refugiums, with 2 inches of substraight, with about 50 mangroves in them. Around 800 gph.
>For top off water I run a 4 stage ro/di 100gpd unit with 2 more carbon canister filter run inline.
> biological filtration is done by 1000 lbs of LR in the main display, 200 lbs in a rock chamber tank, and about 50 more lbs in the refugiums.
>one small experimental sponge tank (really more like a chamber). it gets about 600gph.

And that about wraps it up.
As per parameters
Alk=13
cal=425-475
Pos=???whats that
Mag=1325 pegged
Temp=80 pegged
ph=8.25 to 8.35
organics test=clear

anyway that gives you the basic run down

Mike

[Spanky]

I just run a hose from the canal.

[SPC]

Thanks for the reply Mike, Dave would be horified if he saw that list .

I drip analytical grade kalk

What is analytical grade?
Steve

Originally posted by mojoreef
Ah Steve you always make me work
. Ok so for removal of detritus and cleansing of water.
> Massive flow which keeps the detrtus in the water column. 10000 gph on closed loops and 3000gph on a 1 1/2 spraybar under and behind the rock.
>Etss 2500 skimmer run by a 1/2 hp (70gpm) this takes out pretty much everything detritus wize that is in the water.
>200 watt of UV run through 3 individual towers at around 600gph. This gives the fish a nice hot meal, and takes care of most of the nasties in the water column.
>A dual chamber (4' tall x 8 inch diameter) calcium reactor. Pours effluent out at a rate of a full 3/8' hose.
>I drip analytical grade kalk at a rate of 10 gallons a day.
>I bloww the rocks (but they are always clean) and then vacuum the 1 inch CC substraight once a month, dont get alot though.
> I run a 3 chambered carbon fillter canister for about half the month. about 600GPH.
>I run a 110 gallons worth of refugiums, with 2 inches of substraight, with about 50 mangroves in them. Around 800 gph.
>For top off water I run a 4 stage ro/di 100gpd unit with 2 more carbon canister filter run inline.
> biological filtration is done by 1000 lbs of LR in the main display, 200 lbs in a rock chamber tank, and about 50 more lbs in the refugiums.
>one small experimental sponge tank (really more like a chamber). it gets about 600gph.

And that about wraps it up.
As per parameters
Alk=13
cal=425-475
Pos=???whats that
Mag=1325 pegged
Temp=80 pegged
ph=8.25 to 8.35
organics test=clear

anyway that gives you the basic run down

Mike

what am i getting myself into!

[mojoreef]

What is analytical grade?

Analytical grade is basically lab grade components, so thier is none of the food grade ad ins. Lets just say a purer form. Also it is made from Calcium oxide. This allows for a more concentrated mix.

Mike

[Junkzoo]

Originally posted by Spanky
I just run a hose from the canal.

YA , I WAS WAITIN' FER THAT ONE FROM YA ,,,,,,