help my green tank

[mandarinfreek]

I am new to the hobbie and have had pretty good luck so far with a lot of help from a good firend, but now he is no longer in the area and im left all alone. First let me list what I have
75 gallon glass
CPR skimmer
magninum canister filter
2 pinguin 330 biowheel fliters (4 biowheels total)
Ice cap ballast (VHO) w/ 4-48" bulbs (2 white and 2 blue)
80 lbs of pacific crushed coral substrate
40 lbs LR
power head in the tank but not sure of the GPH

thats about it,

The tank has been running for about 6 months with no problems, I HAD the followig fish
1- Kole Tang
2-percula clowns
1-lawnmower gobie
1-yellow tang (the tangs were introduced at the same time so I had no problems there...they ended up being good buddies!!!)
and finally my fav a mandarin gobie. (dragonnet)

all was well..was even getting growth on the LR
had large amounts of brown alge on the substrate which I cannot get to go away...even now. I clean it about every 2-3 days but it comes back.
then came our friend ICH
didnt catch it in time and it wiped out everything. Hey im a newbie... chalk that up to experience (I plan on buying a UV sterilizer in the next couple of days.)...but the problem now is that I have an alge bloom that is terrible. My tank resembles a green that will make an X-Box jealous.

So what to do....

I am performing water changes but I cannot get this to go away... I can see about 2 inches into the tank, thats it,
the good news is that the lawnmower is alive with no disease
HORRAY

Again...HELP ME ...im outta ideas.

thanks

[Ray1214]

First of all, How old is this tank. This looks like typical "New Tank Syndrome". Big time. The ich was from something else stressing the fish. What are your nitrate, Ammonia, pH, Specific Gravity, and Temp readings. I have yet to see a UV Sterilizer cure an ich infestation. However I did cure an ich outbreak with patience and good food and corrected my tank chemistry issues.
Did you add all of these fish at the same time? My wife ran into the same problem until I passed the edit: "Thou Shalt Add No Fish Until 30 Days Hath Passed From the Last Addition". The only exception is mated pairs. Also from the Reefkeeping commandments "Thou Shalt Quarenteen Thy Critters for at least 2 Weeks more if the Critter seemed Sicketh". Pretty much a lot of issues from live stock kinda went away. My biggest problem is not turning the QT tanks into Nano Reefs but 10 gal tanks are cheap. My QT tanks use an overpowered filter, water changes, and has no gravel. Just some pieces of PVC pipe and various old Aquarium Ornaments and a wee bit of live rock. I keep a sponge for a sponge filter in the sump to help quick start the tank when I need it. The QT can also take place at the local fish store. I routinely have them watch a specimen (I pay upfront) for a few weeks before i pick him/her up.

Here is what I would do:

Increase the flow a bit, try to figure out what your flow rate is (330 per filter at max so that is 660 gph, and what ever your powerhead and canister puts out. ) I would increase it bit. it will help keep your algaes in check.

get a good chemistry kit. Figure out what you have in your water.

Start out with good water. Get an RO/DI unit or get RO/DI wate from the fish store.

Shorten your lighting periods, (you didn't mention what you had for lights) until the bloom dies off.

Ray

[Geoff]

Welcome to TRT!!!!



i moved the thread here so it would get more exposure.

when setting up a tank it generally takes up to 2-3 months for the system to cycle. during that time you will get some of the algae blooms but not all. it sounds like you are still in the early cycling stages of the tank. i have found that fish seem to make the cycle more severe. we suggest cycling tanks with LR only now instead of any fish.

as for the mandarine. i would not suggest getting one of these until after the tank has been setup for at least a year. they are picky eaters and need a high pod population to live. it generally takes a year for the pods to get entrenched enough in a system that they will breed fast enough for a major predator like a mandarine. this is also assuming you do not get any fish that will also eat pods, wrasses are out.

please give us an update with how long the tank has been set so we can help you more.

again welcome!

G~

[LittleFishBoy]

The tank has been running for about 6 months with no problems,

[LittleFishBoy]

Ice cap ballast (VHO) w/ 4-48" bulbs (2 white and 2 blue)

Did i miss something here? Or did you guys?

[Ray1214]

Whoops, actually I didnt. Trying to type a response and catch bits and pieces. I didn't see the time frames and the lighting before. I guess it happens with my old age. Well this helps a bit. How long are the lights on for? That and I would say high nitrates are the cause of the bloom.

Ray

[SPC]

Hi mandarinfreek,

You have a couple of areas that could be potential problems if proper maintenance is not done. Please inform us of your maintenance routine on the following:

magninum canister filter
2 pinguin 330 biowheel fliters (4 biowheels total)
80 lbs of pacific crushed coral substrate
Steve

[cyberchef]

Based on your description it sonds like your tank looks like it's full of pea soup???

Crank up your skimer and adjust it so that you are getting a good wet foam. You need to get the nutrients and phytoplankton out of the tank. Skimming out the Phyto will remove the nutrients that they are feeding on. Replace the wet skimmate with fresh ASW on a 1:1 ratio (for every 1 gallon of wet skimmate removed, replace it with 1 gallon of fresh ASW).

Next thing you need to do is take a step back and let the tank settle down and stablize. Do not add anything (fish or critters) new to the tank and do not add any additives. Sounds like you have plenty of algae so feeding the blenny is not a concern.

Once the water clears, so that you can see through it, do a few (3-4) large (25%-50%) water changes over a 1-2 week period. This will help with removing nutrients as well as help to get the trace elements back in line which will help the tank to stabilize.

Also try and vaccumm/stir the crushed coral to free up detritus before doing each water change. Also at this time clean the magnum filter before and after doing this so that the "gunk" does not stay in the magnum and contribute to the problem.

Unfortunately the UV by itself will not help much. It will kill off the phyto which in turn will release all of the "stored" nutrients back into the system. Once the algae bloom is cleared up then use the UV to help keep it and other nasties under control. It will really be better to remove the phyto before it dies not after.

Lets get the algae bloom cleared up befoe we worry about the next course of action.

1 more thing, while doing this make a list of all of your husbandry habits. (ie: water changes, tank maintenance, feeding habits, testing habits and the actual results.. etc) and post this information. This information can be used to help determine the cause of the problem so we can cure the cause not just the symptoms. Unless you find the cause (ie: overfeeding, not cleaning the filter often enough... etc) you will only manage to eliminate the sumptoms (algae bloom) for short periods of time, they will come back.

Also check out these threads

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...ighlight=algae

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/sh...ighlight=algae

[JennM]

Thanks Don - I was going to reference those threads too. To cut to the chase, I ended up using a Marine Clarifyer to catch the particles by flocking them.

Post parameters - first and foremost. I did not use the clarifyer until the chemistry was reading acceptable parameters - in our case the client's tank was still cycling when the problems began, and they had been receiving bad advice and moving way too fast. In addition they were overfeeding obscene amounts into the tank, which IMO, combined with phosphate-riddled tap water, made the perfect recipe for a huge algae bloom.

Post parameters, post how much you were feeding, and how often and what you were feeding, how long your lights are running, etc., and we'll address each factor that contributed to this.

The magnum canister might be useful with the micron filter, to catch the algae particles, but for the most part, canisters are not a good filtration device for marine tanks, as they do not allow enough gas exchange to take place. The penguins might not push enough flow either - I forget what a 330 moves per hour. You might want to add a couple of powerheads to get some more water movement, and as was mentioned, crank up that skimmer.

Jenn

[mandarinfreek]

WOW...... I cannot thank yall for the quick response...well here is some info that yall requested...

waterchanges....about 25% every 2 weeks now....was doing one every month before this happened,

testing every other day....I have .5 ammon. 0 nitrate and 0 nitrite. I was NOT using RO/DI water...so I have a feeling that phosphate is to cause.

I feed vege/seeweed with flake every other day and brine/bloodworm alternating on the other days...I hear that a variety is great so there it is....im using american pharmicutials ...which I hear isnt real reliable....

I am also using KENT superbuffer and coralife calcium supplement and reef plus vitamins.

I keep the lights on for about 9-12 hours but have cut that down to 8 starting today.

the skimmer is all the way up

and I never thought to change the cartridge filter after vaccuming the tank...makes sense to get all the big particles of junk outta there...so ill start doing that

as for the new tank syndrome...its been up for 6 months....but I guess that it is still possible....im willing to accecpt anything at this point
as for the mandarin...well he was eating the bloodworms just fine...almost with every feeding...they are so cool

well if yall need more info let me know...all help is greatly appreciated....really really really appreciated

[CAT]

Originally posted by mandarinfreek
....I have .5 ammon. 0 nitrate and 0 nitrite. I was NOT using RO/DI water...so I have a feeling that phosphate is to cause.

Looks like you just i.d.'d two of your major problems. If your ammonia is .5 then the fish would have problems, if you're using reg. tap water then it's most likely the cause of the algae bloom.

I would take a sample to your lfs to double check the ammonia reading with their test kit, and also test for phosphates.

You've gotten great advice. Now you'll just need to change a few things and you're good to go. It'll just take awhile to get back to where you were...

Good luck

[Geoff]

sorry, i missed a lot of that too. need to pay more attention when i am at work.

you should also only add what you have test kits for. like the Ca and the alk.

canister filters and hang on back filters need to be cleaned weekly. i need to clean my sponges twice a week! exporting wastes is very important in our systems. the faster it is removed the better. if it sits to long it drives down the water quality.

G~

[cyberchef]

Originally posted by mandarinfreek


testing every other day....I have .5 ammon. 0 nitrate and 0 nitrite. I was NOT using RO/DI water...so I have a feeling that phosphate is to cause.

I feed vege/seeweed with flake every other day and brine/bloodworm alternating on the other days...I hear that a variety is great so there it is....im using american pharmicutials ...which I hear isnt real reliable....

I am also using KENT superbuffer and coralife calcium supplement and reef plus vitamins.

Ammonia should be O and the fact that you have readable ammonia and no trites or trates seems odd but possible. I would suggest that you invest in a better test kit, Hach or Salifert would be my first choices. Also it would definately help if you could do topoff and changes with RO/DI. Do you have a RO/DI unit now?

Considering your number of fish, that seems like a heavy feeding regimen. That combined with the tangs being Poop factories would cause the bioload on the system to be considered high, especially since your tank is only 6 months old. While not brand new, it is still a young tank/system that has probably not fully cycled yet (By this I mean more than just the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle) and still needs time to mature.

Seeing that you don't mention any corals I would not worry about the calcium and buffer additives right now. Regular water changes should keep both in line considering that your system has very little demand for them. As far as "reef vitamins" or any other type of liquid/powder reef food or growth promoter is concerned, they are basically algae food IMHO. Again, regular water changes along with good husbandry should take care of the majority of your tanks needs. I would also sugest that you either use a good 2 part additive for calcium/alkalinity or drip kalkwasser. I personally have found it very difficult to maintain proper chemical balance by using seperate buffer and calcium supplements. To use these properly you need to test the params every day and then calculate how much of each is needed to properly balance the water chemistry. A lot of work and very easy to accidently make a mistake. Too much of either one and the other one will also get thrown out of balance.

I would also suggest that you do away with frozen foods, they tend to be high in phosphates (it's a commonly used preservative) and try going with blender mush if you can make it. That or at the very least, rinse the frozen brine/bloodworms in RO/DI water before feeding them to remove some of the phosphates. If by chance you are feeding live brine and bloodworms then I would still suggest rinsing them as both have a tendency to foul the water they are kept in very quickly.

Again, I would suggest that you do a few major water changes over the next week to help bring the water chemistry back in balance and to help bring the ammonia/trites/trates down. Also, don't add any additives of any kind till you get the system back in balance and stabilized, you don't need them, especially right now.

[mandarinfreek]

IM happy Im so happy.....
well all that is a load of info.... I just wanted to say thanks again...

as for the superbuffer, even with the LR and crushed coral I have been having trouble keeping my Ph levels at 8.0+..normally its around 7.6-7.8.. so I started using the buffer to help me maintain the Ph a little better.... I am only using half of what is directed.. I havnt used it in about 2 weeks so I think that I will no longer have to since my ph is doing just fine without it.

as for the RO/DI ....no I do not have one ....but I think that I will get that instead of the UV sterilizer...Priority, Priority Priority....

then there is the frozen food....what can I say ...the advice is seemless...and Ill cut back on the feedings once I get the tank back to a suitable condition.

as for the Ammo. (.5) what is the best way to drop it??? natural filtration.... I mean on my pinguins I have green alge hanging from the output....it was brown ....now its green ...people say thats good....is this true???

As for waste removal...well seemless advice again...I will start changing once a week or more if needed... The reason I wasnt doing that before is because I have been told that you dont want to change all the filters at one time because you could shock your biological filter.

Plus now that I think about it ...I did a partial water change right after Hurricane Isabel. My local pet store stated that due to run-offs into reseviors it is possible that there are more bacteria/phosphates than normal ... this may also be a contributing factor in all this mess. I live in Virginia so again RO/DI unit will be a necessity any recommendations on what brand is a good one???

I also type at work so I know what you mean.....

thanks again everyone... I nor realize that I need to change the habbits....and I need to change them now....

[JennM]

First off, I'd doubt the results of that AP test. I get a lot of people who get a false positive using those, and I usually have then throw the test away when a "real" (hehe) test kit gives an accurate result.

Yes, runoff would throw your phosphate off the scale.

Changing your filter cartridges/media will not throw off the balance - if you have live rock, that IS your biological filter, and the Penguins have bio wheels - you don't mess with them at all. Some will argue that you should take the wheels out - for now let's not enter that debate - just keep the catridges rinsed weekly or more, and replaced monthly or more if needed. Canister has to be KEPT from "going biological" or you will have a serious nitrate problem in the long term - change it often.

Sounds like overfeeding was an issue - most people don't want to go to the trouble of blender mush - and truthfully, if you use high quality foods in the proper quantity, phospate should not be a problem - just another option.

I'd be running some phosphate sponge in that canister, and possibly some clarifyer, to rapidly export that stuff. As you may have read in that thread I started, you might not get a high reading for phosphates if you test, because the phyto suspended in the water has it all bound up. The trick seems to be getting the algae OUT of the tank, and for us, the clarifyer did the trick fast.

Since my last update, the canister has been removed from the tank, and it has stayed clear (fingers crossed!), the hobbyist is changing 7 gallons per week on a 55, and has cut his feeding to what is sensible.

HTH

Jenn