Help

[sunny]

HELP!! I have algae growth that I can't control! I have had a 245 gallon reef tank set up for 3years. 3 months ago noticed brown brown hair-like algae, then green algae. All water has been tested, (only use R/O water) all chemistry is great, but things are dying due to suffocation from algae. I was told to do a 75% H2o change. This was great for about a week, then started again! This time advice was to wash out live rock well in clean salt water and do a 100% water change after cleaning/replacing sand. I chose to replace. Problem is back! I have gone to several marine stores & had rep come out to look at it. The only advice I have been given is to get rid of all the live rock and start all over again. Any advice would be helpful.

[Spanky]

Uck Oh

Hi Sunny (like that name) and WELCOME to TRT.

Let's slowly work through this.

How aggressive are you skimming?
Sure your RO/DI filters are working right?
How much have to been feeding and how heavy is your bio-load in the tank?
What's your clean up crew and how much?

Give us a quick run down on your tank. Water parameters, size, circulation, history.

Most of us here have or will run into this problem at some time or the other.

Jerel

[tdwyatt]

I noticed that your location is the American Southwest. The water there is so high in Phosphates that it will quickly exhaust many DI units which are responsible for a good deal of the phosphate removal in some RO/DI setups. This then allows large amounts of phosphate to flow through the unit into the filtrate unchecked. Testing your filtrate with a TDS meter will let you know when the levels of passed ions begins to rise, signalling a need to change your cartridge. Feeding any protein (flakes, blender mush, etc.) will also introduce phosphate into your water column in addition to the nitrate associated with protein metabolism. Jerel's questions will help us make good guesses at what the problem is in your tank.

Algal blooms require a good source of nitrate, some phosphate, good lighting, a few trace elements like iron, and CO2 to occur. These nutrients MUST be present to fuel such a bloom. There are many hidden sources of these nutrients, ranging from improper grades of carbon in the sump to the use of nitrate-saturated older live rock or disrupted nutrient sinks (plenum sand beds, for example). Knowing as much as is possible about the history of your setup and your daily routines for care will help us determine what are the possible sources of some of the nutrients that fuel these nuisance algal blooms.

The brown dusting often seen in marine aquaria is from the growth of diatoms and is a sign that there are adequate silicates in the water column for the diatoms and certain other organisms that make either tests or skeletons of silicates/opal. Once the silicates are taken up by the initial blooms, they are usually consumed in the building of sponge colonies or fall to the substrate and become part of the nutrient mix in the substrate (i.e., don't be disrupting your sandbed... ...you DO have one, I trust ...). Either way, silicates will fall out of the picture once the initial blooms occur (unless they are replaced while top off water is added from a faulty or exhausted RO/DI setup) and the nitrogenous nutrients are then cycled into the next bloom, usually hair algae and the like. Give us as much detail on how you have your setup established, what organisms are in your system, and what your routine is for caring for the system.

Good luck, there are many folks here that have gone through exactly what you're experiencing, it WILL get better!

[sunny]

Thanks. Okay, tank is 245 gallons, large protein skimmer, have lots of live rock with mushrooms, soft and hard corals. Have four peppermint shrimp, one tang, one flame angel, and one cleaner shrimp. I have never had to feed the tank and all, until now, have done well. I use B-Ionic alkalinity and calcium (#1 & #2) 1/2 cup on M/W/F. Do monthly 10% water changes.
Since I live in Arizona I haul water in from the "water store" and would never consider using tap water. I have had the water checked and everything looks great. As I said before, three years of success and now... well... I feel terrible. Seem to be losing. Would you recommend that I take a large portion of the live rock out until I get the situation under control? (This was recommended by the marine store). I am not sure I am buying into that concept. And, yes, I do have a sand bed. Plese be aware that by recommendation of another aquarist, I did clean everything out and did a 100% water change. I do not believe all these water changes can be good for my tank. I sincerely appreciate all of your input.

[Doug1]

Hmmmmmmmmm, something to think about. A flame angel is not much bioload on a 245 g tank, since the other fish is a tang, I assume it grazes well. You state you dont feed and that sounds reasonable in a tank that size and 3 yrs old. So low fish load and no feeding, pretty much leaves the source water as the culprit.
Like Tom said, in order for algae to run amuck it needs Light , and nutrients. I f you arent adding tap water I have to suspect the water you have been getting, its gotta be coming from somewhere. How old and what type of lights are you using, it may be that after all this time you have enough issues getting marginal enough its starting to create a problem.
FWIW the problem hanging on inspite of 100% water change leads me to think its either in your bought water or that your live rock may be a nutrient sink by this time

[Geoff]

how old are your light bulbs? what kind of lighting are you using? if you have not changed the bulbs in over a year then maybe they have shifted into the red zone.

G~

[sunny]

Thanks so much for all of your comments. I have two twin power compact 96 watt ultra actinic lights and four power compact 96 watt 10000 k premium daylight bulbs, They are approx. 3 1/2 to 4 months old. I have bulbs on auto re-order so they are changed out 2-3 times a year. I am strongly beginning to think it is time to let go of the old figi rock. Coming home from work today it looks like the whole tank is brown again. This is really frustrating and a fish tank is really starting to look good right now. May I ask what everybody here thinks about me taking out most of the rock and just leaving the corals in the tank?? I am getting confused and sad to say frustrated.

[sunny]

Jerel,
Just wanted to thank you for welcoming me to the site. Very informative and obviously dedicated aquarist . Best one I have run into yet!

[Doug1]

Hmmmmmmmmm I dont know if tossing a large rock in a bucket of new SW would help test, but somethings amiss and I keep thinking ready made water

[dbelshe]

You said you did a 100% water change a little while ago, and now have brown algae ...sounds like you are going through a cycle again,which would explain the brown algae. Just my .02 worth.

[leester]

Who is the manufacturer of your power compacts? I've noticed that the Coralife 10K N.O. have a very green to red spectrum that shifts quickly and produces a huge amout of brown type macro-algae. Rock itself, does not emit it's own silicates or other undesirable trace elements, unless introduced to it. Don't rid your self of the rock just yet. You may have to check the parameters of your store bought water, test the output of that system, trites, trates phosphates, Etc. I'm in Florida, we have a large chain of grocery stores called Publix they produce a water for $0.69 that's ozonated & de-inonized, this stuff has never caused any problems to myself or other reef people. Good luck- I'm not a biologist!

[kestrel]

Sunny - Welcome to TRT.

I think it is too early to consider scrapping the LR. I would go with the rest here and think that the problem is with the water and possibly the lights. How long is your photoperiod?

Also when did you do the sand replacement and 100% water changes? Those two would lead me to believe that it is re-cycling. If it is re-cycling. then you really need to keep the LR in order to provide life to the system.

What type of sand did you put in?

Do you have any snails? You didn't mention them. If not they can really help.

Also what test kits are you using? and have they expired? I've found that old kits can sometimes lead to false information. I have also found that if all of the nutrients are quickly consumed by algae, testing may not indicate high levels, but as soon as you disturb the algae, it will cycle into the next bloom.

When you do a water change, have you tested the water before putting it into the tank? Have you changed salts? Are you also using RO/DI for top-offs?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but the more we brainstorm this, the better our chances of finding a solution for you.

My suggestions at this point would be to use a turkey baster to blast the LR and remove as much algae as possible, then do a small (10%) water change, with tested make-up water. I'd do this weekly if I could. Also temporarily cut back on the photo-period if you can. That will give the algae less time to grow.

Be patient and keep us up-to-date. We'll keep thinking and work you through this.

Daryl

[Geoff]

it really does sound like the tank is cycling again. especially since you replaced the sand (what kind of sand did you use). my tank is still in a diatom bloom and i set it up back in Nov. i agree the snails are a big help. i have some monster turbo snails in their and they are doing a great job clearing the rock so the coralline can take hold.

i would also take some of your water to a LFS and have them test it just to have a reference.

how much skimmate does your skimmer produce? are you getting gobs or very little? if you are getting gobs you might want to think about adding some macroalgae. do you have a refugium?

hth, sorry for being rude and not saying Welcome earlier.

G~

[Jimbo]

Hi been thinking about your problem. Do you have a refugium. A algea filter could help considerbly.

I wonder if you did'nt introduce this algea that you have at some point when adding some new livestock. It's possible that you have an excess on a certain element that this algea likes. The only source would be your live rock or your water.

I think you said that you took out the sand bed and replaced it. If so you have seriously disrubted the ecology of the tank. So making judgements before things settle down would be premature.

You could take some of the algea to your local LFS and see if any of there tangs will eat it. If you find some, recommend you get 2 or 3 for a tank your size. Those lettuce like nudibranches are also good. Get like 10 of the big ones, they can clean your tank out in a matter of days. Fight nature with nature Get a variety of snails, but avoid the turbo's, they will die if they eat brown algea or if they just fall over and at this point you don't need things that die in your tank. Queen Conches are good, they are big.

If your patient and use natural algea predators your tank should come around. Would be a shame to through out all that rock.

[Alice]

Welcome to the Reef Tank, Sunny

You are getting many good suggestions and advice. Just remember to go slow and go about your tank "repair" methodically. Changing it all up at once is probably only going to be counterproductive.

It's really hard when your tank looks "ugly" especially after several years of humming along without any major difficulty. Believe me, I know. I about threw my hands up and pitched the whole works about 8-10 months ago; my tank was such a mess. Lots of water changes, upgrading skimmers and waterflow, and use of a UV finally pulled my tank around from a nasty bout of dinoflagellates.

Be patient, provide as much info as you can and we'll all help you brainstorm.

Alice