OK, Tons of questions, I'll start with filters

Jvalent · 02-20-2008, 05:24 PM

So here is my plan for my tank. It is going to be a 90 gallon reef tank... 4 feet long by 2 feet high by 18" deep. I am a Junior in college and I had this idea to install a tank in my apartment (first floor so the ground is very sturdy). I am building a bar in our sunroom and decided to put the tank underneath the countertop as sort of the front of the bar. In essence I will be building a bar around the tank since the tank will now be the centerpiece.

So far I have the tank size selected and the lighting selected (6 x 54W T5 fixture). My next step is to design the filter/sump system. This is where all of you local experts come in right. I do have a 30 gallon old tank I can use as a sump, but I need to know what else to get for it.
I believe the most common setup is having an overflow built in and go to the sump, then having the water pass over some live rock and a protein filter, and then pumped back into the tank. I would also have my heaters in the sump. At least this is what I gathered from all the reading I have been doing.

My questions are...
Will the 30 gallon sump be ok sitting next to the aquarium, instead of underneath?
What type/size of protein filter should I look into?
What size overflow would be good for my size tank?
What size hole in the overflow?
What other items should I look at adding to the sump?

Thanks for any help, I am a newbie but want to buy the right stuff the first time.

Jvalent · 02-20-2008, 05:26 PM

Also, I saw this online... It is a wet/dry with a protein skimmer built in. Is this good, bad, works with sump, I have no clue.
http://www.aquariumguys.com/rapids-wet-dry-ps4.html

Fat Tony · 02-20-2008, 05:42 PM

the 30 next to the tank will be fine... I recommend something like a Lifereef overflow... any U Tube style overflow for that matter... the CPR style are not self restarting (say if the primer pump fails) you will want a couple weirs (baffles) int he sump, a return pump and the skimmer and heaters. no need for live rock or macro algae (aka fuge) in the sump.. put all the LR in the display tank. for that tank... i would recommend the Octopus NW200 skimmer, and an Eheim 1260 return pump... toss in a couple Koralia 4 powerheads and your rock and wait for the tank to cycle... check the link in my sig to see my sum, also visit hng's page linked in his sig and see the design of his... as for the wet-dry with integral skimmer... i would say nay... the bioballs are nitrate factories and the skimmer is usually undersized...not to mention you can build one cheaper and more effective. I recommend that you swing by the meetings and check out other peoples sump setups. and if you are ever at Oceans Floor in greenville, talk to scott... he lives out in Clemson as well. maybe he'd be willing to let you see his sump setup and give you a hand as well

hng · 02-20-2008, 09:39 PM

It would be better if you have the sump underneath the tank so that it can drain more easily. If they are at the same height, it would be tough to get the display to reliably drain into the sump. As Tony mentioned, an overflow with a U-tube would be your best bet in that situation. If you can get the tank as a "reef ready" model with the overflow installed and drain holes pre-drilled, that will make your life a lot easier, and it's not much more in cost. Then, you could place the sump uder the tank and have it drain directly down. Use the 30 gallon tank as a sump. Like Tony said, you'll need to add at least three baffles in the sump to act as a bubble trap. You'll want to place the skimmer in the chamber that receives water directly from the tank. I would also recommend an Octopus nw200 for a skimmer. The Ehiem is an excellent choice. Take a look at my build for my 90 gal tank for some ideas. You're welcome to drop by and check it out if you're in town.

tdwyatt · 02-20-2008, 09:45 PM

Just a pair of small observations:

the T-5's are going to put out a lot of heat, being enclosed inside the bar will definitely require some creativity to find a way to do a stealth install of ductwork and fans to keep tankwater temps down while the photoperiod is in its lighterd phase.
Although I'm sure you can get a good resolution for this, with the tanks side by side, there may be draining issues with your overflows once the levels in both systems become equal (remember, this has to include horizontal runs of drain line: water seldom flows uphill), probably better to have the top of the "sump" at least no higher than the bottom of the main tank to ensure flow, not too big an issue until there is a potential power outtge to consider, then air may bubble into the top of a hose that is running horizontally and has a high spot. Under these conditions this may be enough to cause a drain-lock that may result in a flood when the power comes back on and the return pump starts pumping water back into the display portion of the system from the sump.

Just a consideration.

Fat Tony · 02-20-2008, 09:55 PM

just a reminder guys.. he has a 30 gallon he is going to use as his sump... and even at its highest level it's only half as tall as the display tank... which means there shouldn't be any issue with using a hang on overflow and having the sump next to the tank...

tdwyatt · 02-20-2008, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvalent

My questions are...
Will the 30 gallon sump be ok sitting next to the aquarium, instead of underneath?
What type/size of protein filter should I look into?

I like the Octopus 200 for the setup you'll have, and the student lifestyle, easy to care for, not a lot of adjusting, and relatively (moderatly) inexpensive.

Quote:

What size overflow would be good for my size tank? What size hole in the overflow?

see Hoang's comments about getting a drilled tank with an overflow built into it. 1" drain and 3/4" return line should be fine, but the tnk will probably come predrilled and have bulkheadsd already sized to fit the holes.

Quote:

What other items should I look at adding to the sump?

Baffles, automatic top off, a heater, thermometer (and possibly alarm for high or low temp), a controller for the temp, possibly a phosphate reactor, a bag of Carbon, and a means of supplementing calcium depending on what your biotope will be, the creatures you want to keep, and what your primary goal for the system will be. We really need to know this before going any farther on equipment recommendations.

HTH give you a start in the right direction. Look at some GOOD books for the hobby.

tdwyatt · 02-20-2008, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Tony

just a reminder guys.. he has a 30 gallon he is going to use as his sump... and even at its highest level it's only half as tall as the display tank... which means there shouldn't be any issue with using a hang on overflow and having the sump next to the tank...

Unless he drills the sides of the 30 gal tank, or possibly the sides of the main tank and uses a coast-to-coast type overflow, he is going to have to go up and over the sides of the sump in a side-to-side arrangement, this often creates bubble traps in high spots in flexible hose. Unless there is power behind the return line, these often act to cause drain-lock in such applications as bubbles collect in the tops of the high spots in such drain schemes, especially when the power fails. A lot will depend on how far down the back of the tank the HOB returns actually need to drain, or if the tank is drilled for drains, or how far they must run to maintain gravity drains.

A lot will depend on how much lower the sump can be made below the bottom of the display in such an arrangement.

hng · 02-20-2008, 10:22 PM

Yeah Tony, I'm trying to picture it side by side and I have the same concerns as Tom. Seems like it would be much safer to drain down than to the side. I think I'd need to take a look at a setup like that to be sure.

Jvalent · 02-20-2008, 10:44 PM

OK so..., if I can get holes drilled into the side of the 30 gallon, or if I just purchase another acrylic with predrilled holes in the bottom of the side of the sump I should be fine? Seems like the main problem would be the fact the pipes would have to go like this in order to get into the sump...
................___
TANK....... |... |
TANK....... |... SUMP
TANK....... |... SUMP
...|_______|

Wow I can't believe that turned out ok. Anyways, with predrilled holes in the side of the sump it should work fine beside the main tank right?
Also, does anyone have a good layout of the baffles and chambers and such I should get in the sump?

hng · 02-20-2008, 11:00 PM

Well, no, I'm not convinced with the holes in the side thing either. I need to think about this. It probably wouldn't drain any better with holes in the side, because then you would have to deal with the backpressure of the water in the sump.

tdwyatt · 02-20-2008, 11:48 PM

I agree.

Jvalent · 02-20-2008, 11:52 PM

Alright, I can tell you guys tomorrow how much room under the main tank I will have after I take some measurements of the bar area and all... maybe there is a better solution than a U type overflow.
Thansk for all the help

hng · 02-21-2008, 01:46 AM

Are you sure you can do something like this in an apartment? Landlord OK with construction? Honestly, having a reef tank under a bar top is probably not a great idea. You have to stoop down to be able to see things (viewing from top down, like a clear top is not an option because of lighting needs) and always run the risk of someone sitting at the bar kick the glass and break it.

Jvalent · 02-21-2008, 08:04 AM

well I took the kicking thing into consideration. It isn't a sit at bar, no bar stools or anything to sit on even... it really is just a bar for some college kids with a kegerator, mini fridge and liquor rack in the back to make some drinks. As for the kicking thing, I was going to recess the tank back an inch or two from the front and put a piece of strong lexan or somehting clear in the front so even if a football player ran into it it shouldn't break both. As for viewing, I don't mind not having a perfect viewing angle... I've wanted a SW tank for some time now.