sump

[tangmang23]

is there an efficient way to clean a sump, or does this usually never take place?? What i found really weird and i wasnt sure how this could happen was the nitrate in my sump was reading 80ppm and with the same test kit the DT was reading 20ppm. Thats a huge difference. What causes this??

I started to get curious when the cyano algae stage started with the 120. I try to keep up with water changes as much as possible, but with work, and never having any RO water, its been about 5% a week, and thats just not going to cut it. I broke, and purchased and PURE FLO 2, Coralife RO unit, for 107 bucks from fostersmith.com..... Basically, cant wait till i get it running so i can clean my tank, and get rid of algae.

Heres a few questions:

1) is it going to be safe to do 30-50% waterchange in one day??
2) does this model need a chlorine prefilter so the TFC membrane does not deteriorate.

The info said that it comes with a TFC membrane, 1 micron carbon block, and a sediment filter. this unit does not have DI resin.

[hansmatt]

1) Yes, you can do larger water changes without much consequence...usually. I know of a very accomplished reefer who had one or two episodes where something about his water change caused mass dieoff among corals...but I think that's a rarity. I do a 20% every 6 weeks or so, but skim heavily & supplement Ca+.
To clean out the sump & get the particulate...use a wet-dry shop vac. They really get the little stuff, including pods, but make the job much easier than a siphon.
2) I don't know about the chlorine, but the prefilter & carbon block will make your RO filter last longer. Necessary, no, but in the long run the RO filter is the most ex*****ve of the bunch, so preserve it.

I noticed a big difference after switching from grocery store RO to that made by a high-quality dedicated system. My hair algae is gone, and tank looks great. I hope yours does the same.

[Jrmass]

If you have been running with Tap water up until this point NO YOU CAN NOT DO A LARGE R.O. WATER CHANGE... You will send your tank into osmotic shock. You need to slowly change over to Osmosis water. If you have been using RO water then yes you can do whatever sized change your heart desires.. I have already done multiple 50% changes in a day (had an anemone die in the tank and needed to get the smell of raw sewage out of my appt).

So, if you are not using RO water or anything of the sorts then you will need to do the 15%-20% water changes say every Third day until you can get the consitution of osmosis water up high enough for everything to adjust.

You will just have to watch for yourself. If your fish or inverts start to look like they are getting stressed hold off a few extra days on a change. When you do your top-offs though I would begin doing straight RO water though as this will help ease you into the change.

Hope this helped.

Jason

[firsthesitation]

NOT to contradict you hasmatt, just difference of opinion.

It would be BETTER I think for water stabilization to do 2 smaller water changes at the start and end of a week than to do 1 huge change. Drastic changes in your water parameters could jeopardize coral and fish health.

Do you have a TDS meter that you can test your pre-in and output levels to see what you're getting out with the RODI?

As far as sump cleaning goes, I keep a magfloat in my sump too to keep the glass clean, use my siphon to get the crud out of the bottom, take my pumps out once a month and clean them in vinegar....havent ever taken the whole thing out but I guess if I could maybe i'd do that once a year or something....

[Jrmass]

Good point on the TDS... If you do not have one many of us (present company included) have one that we could test your water for you.

[ReefLuvR]

Could someone bring a TDS meter to the meeting? I'd like to see what is before and after my RO/DI. My tank came from a "tap water" reefer, so I've been doing very small water changes every couple days. Less than 10%. Of course, i don't have anything living in my tank yet except the peppermint shrimp and snails...

Best of luck to you tangmang!

[tangmang23]

the RO system i purchased does not come with a TDS meter, but i bought one with it. Its a dual, so it will test before and after filtration.

Currently am using RO water, but going to OTP to get it, gets hard and after a while, i have no water left, and have to shut my tank down and fill it later. its getting to the point were my skimmer and live rock cant keep the water clean enough.

my 65 gallon had cyano issues when it was newer and the coral was starting to die off. I was thinking about getting a nitrate and phosphate reactor as well, but how efficient are these devices. are they worth the few hundred to purchase and install??

Basically my conclusion was, get my own RO unit, and have as much water as i need, and then i will start to see my coral come back a bit.

sorry for the rambling.

[tangmang23]

Originally Posted by ReefLuvR

Could someone bring a TDS meter to the meeting? I'd like to see what is before and after my RO/DI. My tank came from a "tap water" reefer, so I've been doing very small water changes every couple days. Less than 10%. Of course, i don't have anything living in my tank yet except the peppermint shrimp and snails...

Best of luck to you tangmang!

thanks, i appreciate it. Ive never had any issues, and it all started when i have no water lol, so simple solution to pollution is dilution lol. Get more water, do multiple water changes to get nitrate to near 0 and phosphate to 0 and in a few weeks if not days, see a huge decrease in algae. Im crossing my fingers.

[hansmatt]

As do many others, I think the quality of your water (topoff & water change) has a ton to do with the results in your tank. Yes, there are people who use tap, others who don't skim, and a ton of other variations that work for them. Yes there are exceptions, but like in all science, I try to follow a protocol that has been established for a reason...it works.

Yes, buying an RO or RODI system is a bit of $, but after over two years of getting water from OTP, or Festival Foods, I was happy to spend the $ on a system. At 2g a day or more, and $.30 g, that is over $200 in water for the year. Yes, buying a system will likely cost more, plus you have filters every year or so and water via the city, but it is so much easier, and I know the quality is much better than the machine at the grocery. The DI units do drop the TDS levels to 0, or close to it. The fewer impurities you put in the tank the better.
Water changes...I don't know about osmotic shock...if you're doing water changes, your are adding dissolved solids to your tank in the form of salts anyway, there are not going to be any "events" related to osmosis. That being said, Jason is corret that corals will react to any change, be they increase or decrease in waste, salt, other dissolved solids, in a negative way if they occur too quickly. I personally wouldn't do more than a 30% or change in a day, then do it again a few days later. This is a bit more gentle on the system. Additionally, the water column has a lot of biotics in it that are necessary for the system to thrive. The ideal way to do a water change would be gradual, ml by ml, over time. The problem with this is that you never start out by ridding the system of the nasties that you are plagued with.
I too had an inherited tank, with lots of PO/Nitrates stored up in a deep sand bed due to very poor skimming. I did replace the sand bed (or most of it), got a much better skimmer, and also PO4 reactor. All of those pieces, in addition to regular water changes make a huge difference.
For what it's worth, a PO4 reactor is relatively simple, cheap way to remedy high phosphate levels, but you've also gotta look at the problem (over feeding, under skimming, loaded sandbed). You can get a reactor for around $45 with pump, and media for a year for another $30.

[Kyuss]

When I first started I used tap water, I had 0 nitrates and corraline growth was insane. I believe we have a lot of limestone on the bluffs and this contributes calc to the water, Matt, you are the scientist, am I correct?

About 8 months into it my 12 gallon developed horrible hair algae. I finally switched to ro after testing my freshly mixed water and it turned out that trates in my tap water was already sitting at 20 ppm. After 2-3 weeks of using ro my ha dissapeared. I believe that the elevation of nitrates was due to it being Spring and farmers dumping tons of fertilizer on their fields which of course eventually makes it to the water supply.

[hansmatt]

Yes, limestone is CaCO3=corals...I don't have any data about the amount of trace elements in our water. but that could very well be true. Same may be the case with phosphates & even nitrates...on occasion municipalities tell nursing moms & kids not to drink water during flood/high water times.

[Jrmass]

Yes Limestone is packed full of CA+ not to mention it's the ultimate NATURAL Buffer. When I had my FW Cichlid tanks This was the ONLY rock I put into the tank as it would regulate the pH to 8.2-8.3 at ALL times. It will do the very same thing in our SW tanks. It's just not nearly as pretty as that of live rock. It can be cured out though (as I figured that some of you would ask) and can be used as Live Rock... But, you need to be very careful and test for everything to ensure that you are not going to be bringing problems into your own tank (This is something that I personally have never tried myself just in case some of you do try this and it doesn't end up working) but, sometime I will give it a shot just to see how it goes.

BTW. A lot of companies that sell base rock just take tons of limestone dump it into the ocean in specific spots that they have marked with GPS coodinates and just retrieve it after it cures itself out.

Just thought that I would throw out some random info for some of you all =)

Jason

[hansmatt]

I like random facts....total dork here!

[Jrmass]

As do I thus I figured I would toss that bit of Nerdness out there for everyone else to join my Fish-Nerd University =)

[tangmang23]

hey my wife says im a nerd all the time because of this hobby. Owell lol.

Anyways, i ordered my RO unit yesterday and got it today, thats something lol. I know its only a few hours drive but still, dang. I will have it hooked up and making water tonight, do a water change tomorrow and also on saturday and sunday. This will through 3 or 4 waterchanges, be a total volume of 120 gallons, of pure quality RO water. My TDS meter, which is not here yet, will need to be added at a later time. I will keep everybody up to date with levels of the water after filtration, to see what a difference it makes.

thanks for the help, hoping my corals will fair better a few weeks then they are now.