Kalk with Ca reactor

Viv · 07-29-2008, 03:59 AM

My Ca reactor is hooked up with a pinpoint ph monitor. Everything is stable except I need to frequently add supplement to the Ca. and occasionally alk too. I can't increase the bubbles anymore or the media starts to melt. (I'm using the large schuran (sp?) type media). Anyway, I was thinking that when the ph drops low from the reactor, which has a tendency to drop below my low set ph, well, it might be a great time to add a kalk reactor.? Output 2 on the pinpoint turns on, so that if you had O2 hooked up via a bubbler it would turn on the bubbler. But is there a way to hook up a kalk reactor to output 2? Any ideas on how this could be done? Also, could this be feasably done without having the system swing from ca reactor to kalk reactor?

luvmylo · 07-29-2008, 04:08 AM

how big is your ca reactor?? Can you turn up the flow rate a little???

Viv · 07-29-2008, 04:27 AM

Can't really turn up the bpm, it will cause the media to melt...I am about as high as I dare to go. The tank is very stable with a mean ph 8.40-8.47, the problem being that the tank remains stable and loses Ca and alk, but because it remains stable the reactor doesn't go on so I have to supplement kalk. If I wait it out, well, there is an unnecessary drop that has to be made up....My thinking was to allow the kalk to bring up the ph when its low, bringing up the Ca. and alk to a more saturated level in the tank and utilizing or causing the reactor to turn on more frequently.
I thought maybe a kalk reactor with a solenoid valve, kinda like the ca. reactor, just on the low output might work...just can't figure how to allow the kalk to run or for that matter preventing it from running kalk into the sump at all times....

luvmylo · 07-29-2008, 04:43 AM

they make a reverse controller so you can set the max level for your ph. I'm not talking about the bpm, I'm talkin bout the water coming out of your reactor. What is your drip rate or do you have a steady stream goin??? I have just never heard of anyone using a kalk reactor with a ca reactor you know?? I'm sure it has been done. With my ca reactor my ph is staying steady at about 8.2 most of the time unless I sneeze in the room then it might drop a bit. =) What is your tank size btw?? I couldn't find a build to see what kind of load you have goin on.

crvz · 07-29-2008, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvmylo

how big is your ca reactor?? Can you turn up the flow rate a little???

Agreed, not the bubble rate of the CO2, the flow rate of water through the reactor. Doing this, you'll actually need more CO2 to retain the same pH level in the reactor (I'd highly recommend using a pH controller with the calcium reactor), but you'll be able to dose more calc/alk to the tank.

I've dosed both kalk and used a calcium reactor, and would still be doing so if my kalk reactor hadnt started to leak. However, my tank pH was always pretty low so the kalk was a good way of boosting it.

Viv, I don't think you've got the reactor setup right. How are you measuring tank pH, and what makes the calcium reactor come on or not? Mine is on 24/7.

luvmylo · 07-29-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crvz

Viv, I don't think you've got the reactor setup right. How are you measuring tank pH, and what makes the calcium reactor come on or not? Mine is on 24/7.

this is a very good point. Could you take pics viv?? I'm not trying to be a pain in your rear but I would hate to see you have to spend the money on something you don't need.

Viv · 07-30-2008, 04:44 AM

Battery to camera is dead-I've got it charging...ok, after rereading the posts I realize you were talking about the flow rate (bubble rate was my brains interpretation,sorry). I have the effluent from the reactor at a steady stream. I could turn it up a bit more, but then the alk drops. I think most likely your right that I don't have it set up right...the effluent runs into the 1st compartment of the sump, so that the protein skimmer can get rid of some of the co2...the pinpoint ph probe is in the last compartment before the return to the tank, I placed it there instead of in the reactor so that I had a better idea of what was returning to the tank. I check the tank ph with test strips (I'm using Red Sea test strips-they seem to be the most accurate for me, I think the store turns them over alot, so they are the freshest).
The setup the way I have it seems to be working...I finally am beginning to see some coralline dots, which I have never had...I believe the water is supersaturated, as the Ca is 500 and the alk tests a very dark blue, which is considered high. Just looking for an easier way than dripping the kalk all the time...
As soon as the battery is charged I'll take some pics.

luvmylo · 07-30-2008, 05:56 AM

ok here's they way I have mine. I have my effluent running into a red plastic cup that I have hanging on the inside of my sump. I also have my probe there. This is where I get the ph reading from my reactor. I have about 2 drops per second drip goin on. There is no way your alk should drop if you turn up your effluent unless you are talking about the alk in the effluent water. To combat this you just need to kick up the bubble count a little. If I were you I would invest in a ph controller to do this with. it's so much easier. You can get a milwakee sp for around a 100 dollars and it will save you a huge headach. You really do need to find a way (like my cup) to get an accurate reading of the effluent.

crvz · 07-30-2008, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvmylo

ok here's they way I have mine. I have my effluent running into a red plastic cup that I have hanging on the inside of my sump. I also have my probe there. This is where I get the ph reading from my reactor. I have about 2 drops per second drip goin on. There is no way your alk should drop if you turn up your effluent unless you are talking about the alk in the effluent water. To combat this you just need to kick up the bubble count a little. If I were you I would invest in a ph controller to do this with. it's so much easier. You can get a milwakee sp for around a 100 dollars and it will save you a huge headach. You really do need to find a way (like my cup) to get an accurate reading of the effluent.

Completely agree. Hard to give more advice without seeing how everything is configured, but the name "calcium reactor", to me, is a bit of a misnomer. I find it has much more affect on the alkalinity level of the tank than calcium, though surely that's affected too.

If you want to keep the reactor media from turning to mush, you need to determine what the pH in the reactor itself is. Keep it above 6.5 or so and you probably won't find any problem. The beauty of a pH controller is that you don't have to mess with the bubble count anymore... you tell the controller to keep the pH at a certain level, and it does so. Then you can fiddle with the flow rate to determine actual tank needs. Much more straight-forward in my experience.

Also, if you're using test strips to determine your tank pH, I have no faith whatsoever that they're accurate. No test kit gives a good pH value, and even probes need to be frequently calibrated and often replaced to give consistently accurate results. Unless you're tank is in a very unique position to bleed off CO2 levels (meaning consistent access to fresh air, i.e., outside) or you put a ton of kalkwasser in the tank, I'd be shocked if your level stays in the 8.4 range.

Viv · 07-31-2008, 10:17 AM

ok, I hope this works, its a new camera....1st is the Ca reactor with the c02 cylinder, the Pinpoint controller , then effluent stream into the first compartment, last the sump, skimmer and Ca reactor...geeze they came out tiny...in the preview post I clicked on them and they enlarged....
anyway, is there a way to hook up kalk drip to output 2 on the controller, and if so can it be regulated so that the tank isn't swinging back and forth (meaning low to high ph)

crvz · 07-31-2008, 10:22 AM

How low to how high pH? A tank is going to have a daily swing, so I wouldnt really worry about a .2-.4 pH swing if it's relatively slow (over 24 hours). Unfortunately, I can't see much from the pictures.

Viv · 08-01-2008, 12:56 PM

ok, my original question was if there was a way to hook up a kalk stirrer or doser to the output 2 of the ph controller. I'm not sure if this could be done, nor if it would cause the ph to swing back and forth between high and low so much that it wouldn't be worth doing. My thought for doing this is because the Ca reactor keeps the ph sooo steady that it doesn't turn on enough or often enough to keep up with alk needs and eventually, Calcium needs.

crvz · 08-01-2008, 01:40 PM

Well there's no need to monitor the pH in a kalk reactor. If it's saturated, the kalk pH is around 12.

What I don't understand is your last statement;

Quote:

My thought for doing this is because the Ca reactor keeps the ph sooo steady that it doesn't turn on enough or often enough to keep up with alk needs and eventually, Calcium needs

What pH level are you talking about when you say "the Ca reactor keeps the pH sooo steady"? You've got three different pH values, if I understand correctly. The pH of the tank, the pH inside the calcium reactor (and essentially the pH of the calcium reactor effluent), and the pH of the kalk effluent.

Also, what is not coming on? The CO2 for the reactor, or the reactor itself? In my experience, the calcium reactor should be on all the time, 24/7. Water should always flow through the reactor. The CO2 solenoid can come on/off if you're using a controller to control the pH inside the reactor, but the reactor itself should never stop flowing water through it.

This also makes me ask, how is your pH controller hooked up? What pH is it measuring? Just the tank, or just the reactor, or a combination?

If the pH controller is controlling the pH inside the reactor, you want it to keep the pH level as consistent as possible, somewhere around 6.5 to 6.8 or so. If you're doing this, and you arent getting enough alk and calc makeup, turn up the water flow rate through the reactor. By doing this, the pH should stay the same (which means it won't melt the reactor media), and you'll be dosing more calcium and alkalinity. If you arent using the controller to control the pH in the reactor, I highly recommend doing so. There shouldnt be any need to dose kalk along with a calcium reactor for alk/calc make-up if the calcium reactor is setup well.