Totally off the wall movie question..."Fight Club"...

[ShirleyM]

OK, I'm real curious. Has anyone seen this movie? If so, what was your take on it?

I've seen it twice, about 9 mos apart, and still don't get it. Trevor, my son, says it's one of his favorite movies -- he explains something about how it's the way the scenes are shot, the camera angles, the intricacies of the production...and I'm just not getting it. He's seen it many times.

If you've seen it, did you like it? Why? Why not?

Curious...

Shirley

[beach bum]

It's edgy, unique, well acted, has an agenda to speak on "...a whole generation of men pumping gas and waiting tables", strange mental twists which are always fun and it shows the power wielded by tapping into unused resources: Pitt's army of men and Norton's subconscious mind.

Good flick, not a great flick. I basically think it addresses male angst in a unique and contemporary way. Not to mention socialization in general exemplified by phrases such as "single serving friends" and "defining my life by a dining set" from an Ikea catalog (or close to that). I think we need more movies mentioning these type of typically under the radar behavior patterns.

hth,
bb

[ShirleyM]

Hmmm...you're saying similar things Trevor has said...I'm still trying to figure out what you guys mean.

What power and tapping into what unused resources? (forgive me for being so dense - it's a question, not a challenge)

What do you mean by "male angst"?

What do you mean by "under the radar behavior problems"?

Of course, I have a hard time watching such painful violence, which is occurrring for no apparent reason (explain?), but it's also the endless dirt and grime and trying to figure out the purpose of it at the end...even when it's explained, it still leaves me with "Why?" My husband, Steve, saw it for the first time with us and basically was waiting for it to end shortly into it...he didn't see a purpose either, and yet, Trevor was like: "Don't you get it?"

??

There's got to be something bigger here that I'm just not getting.

Thanks -- I'm listening

[SouthernReefer]

meatloaf needs a hug.....sorta like "me, myself and irene", only its a dark comedy....

[uurt]

Since SOMEBODY (moron in Hollywood) invented the "chick flick" god made the guy thing, that's the answer Shirley - either you get it or not.
i need another beer,
Lee

[beach bum]

"male angst"?

Shirley, Shirley, Shirley...

This is what I mean:

"...a whole generation of men pumping gas and waiting tables"

No offense to you, but if you had more testerone and the stronger physique of a man this would be clear. You know the phrase "it's woman's work"? Well, not that those jobs are woman's work, but it certainly isn't "men's work".

under the radar behavior problems

People judging their status in life by their possessions for instance. Justifying their complete misery inside by keeping their outsides looking good. That is how people snap like Ed Norton did. He obviously needed to find something more important, and for HIM it meant finding his other 'side' - Tyler Durden.

painful violence, which is occurrring for no apparent reason (explain?),

The reason is that that is Norton's individual trial by fire - his connection to something completely outside the box of traditional behavior. His burning bush. And the violence was not that bad - it was all fisticuffs, only one or two people get killed and that is not shown, most action movies are worse than that.

but it's also the endless dirt and grime

This is just a way to keep it edgy, surreal, base level - what they were doing with the fight club was all those things. Director's vision I guess.

even when it's explained, it still leaves me with "Why?"

Then I doubt I can explain it. To me it shows how an empassioned group, such as the fight club, being enmeshed as they were as just daily simpletons, people you would overlook as you roar away in your brand new SUV or Mercedes, can change the fabric of the a business, city or economy as a whole. The downtrodden ARE the masses. Didn't you notice towards the end just how populous the club was - the cops, security guards, waiters, etc... It began to give one the feeling of being in the minority all of a sudden, surrounded by these nutsos. Bringing down the credit houses was simply to show a larger scope, as was flying to all the cities near the end and having all those people recognize him as Tyler Durden. Creepy.

There's got to be something bigger here that I'm just not getting.

Don't sweat it Shirley, I couldn't stand Steel Magnolias...

[dark horge]

Society allows a man to express certain facets of his male identity:

His fatherly, protective nature.
His ambitious, political social-primate nature.
His sexual nature

But what about latent, physical aggression?
We're certainly born with the physical attributes to effect such aggression, no?

Form follows function.

If you can try to imagine why athletes get rather rough with teammates as a way of celebrating a goal, you may understand that there is both a talent and tendency towards physicality and aggression --neither evil nor good, but merely there.

Fearing anarchy, which is in some ways nothing more than the free redistribution of (often unfairly-accumulated) hoarded assets, the 'haves' instituted societal standards and penalties (laws) to protect their possessions, denying aggressive behavior to all men, save those in their direct employ and subservitude (police, soldiers).

In one respect, the movie is about the 'have-nots' tearing down the emasculating structure set up by the 'haves', and liberating their birthright of physicality and aggression from the artificial shame constructed by the 'haves'.

The terror of anarchy is thereby presumed to be false:
Some 'secure', prosperous societies enjoying 'peace and order' somehow produce just as much injustice, crime and fatal accident as so-called anarchies, but the 'haves' want you sedated via mass media, hedonistic entertainment (sports, TV, etc.) or fase religions, while they rape the common-male identity, and strip-mine the same for their coffers, reducing grown men to drones for the hive.



horge

[beach bum]

but the 'haves' want you sedated via mass media, hedonistic entertainment (sports, TV, etc.) or false religions, while they rape the common-male identity, and strip-mine the same for their coffers, reducing grown men to drones for the hive.

Yeah. What he said.

[ShirleyM]

Thanks, everyone. We took a road trip yesterday (to target shoot pistols, rifles, and trap shoot shotguns) and while on the way, Trevor spent some time explaining to me. He said a lot of what Horge said, and some of what Beach Bum said.

He also said that even though now I think I "get it" that it's not the same as "it clicking and me getting it the first time. It's not the same when it has to be explained before I get it."


He explained that it's not a "guy movie" like the Rambo flicks, etc. He also said it's not the same as the opposite of "chick flicks". He went on to explain the lines about "...a generation of men raised by women..." single moms, boys being taught to get in touch with their "feelings" and lose the aggression, etc, which just can't happen in reality and still be "men". He explained the nowhere jobs of waiters and gas pumpers when I asked about that. No room for aggression. The office jobs -- having to wear certain clothing deemed appropriate, not showing any aggression or male feelings/tendencies.

He explained how during the burning of the hand scene...losing religion, God, all crutches in society, and become only yourself -- learn who you really are. He said listening to the lines was more important in that scene than watching the flesh burn.

First, he [Edw. Norton] got rid of his house and possessions, then the fighting to deal with the pain and rely only on himself, and then the burning of the hand -- losing religion, etc.

I'm sure I'm misquoting Trevor, but I do think I at least can now appreciate why he likes the movie so much, and why he connects with it.

He explained that no matter how much I might explain to him how a mother connects with her baby, he might understand it, but he still won't "get it" like those who "get it" the first time with no help or explaining.

Thanks...Shirley

[Alice]

"Gender neutrality"; it happens all the time at school. Problem is, "they" want all the kids to behave like girls. Quiet, obedient, studious. No rabble-rousing boy behavior. We've had a few struggles with that in our public school system. There's a reason that many more boys than girls are taking Ritalin.....

Alice

[ShirleyM]

right, Alice...gender neutrality, or worse, girl behavior expected from boys. And, the stripping away of natural tendencies and desires.

[uurt]

So, isn't it about time that society let little boys be just that, instead of making vain attempts to alter the natural behavior, and causing future problems that only result in the added burden to society of dealing with these progressively worsening societal problems, ie.- drug abuse, crime, overcrowded prison systems. Remember - the U.S. has just announced that for the first time our prison population has exceeded 2 million. How many of them had to "conform" and were not allowed to behave naturally?

Lee

[ShirleyM]

Originally posted by uurt
So, isn't it about time that society let little boys be just that, instead of making vain attempts to alter the natural behavior, and causing future problems that only result in the added burden to society of dealing with these progressively worsening societal problems, ie.- drug abuse, crime, overcrowded prison systems. Remember - the U.S. has just announced that for the first time our prison population has exceeded 2 million. How many of them had to "conform" and were not allowed to behave naturally?

Lee

This is just one of the reasons I homeschooled my boys. In fact, Trevor, who is now top 10% of 426 students, 15th in his class, basically "sat out" the 2nd half of first grade and the first 9 wks of 2nd grade. During this time, he was a full-blown boy, and managed to learn to read in the meantime from his older brother, Troy. He preferred Troy's instruction and reading to him at night to any one else's. (Troy is 3-1/2 yrs older). When he started regular school, he could read, write, do math, and entertain himself in a productive, non-interfering way when he was finished or bored.

In first grade, Trevor was bored out of his mind with his young female teacher. He asked to be homeschooled, and so I pulled him out. He didn't have to sit and listen to an extremely boring "girlie" 1st grade teacher. Instead, he played, he watched an awful lot of the Desert Storm Gulf War on CNN, and he was just "Trevor". Pure delightful time for all of us. Troy had the opportunity for homeschooling for all of Kindergarten thru 3rd grades. By necessity, I had to return to teaching - thus Trevor was put back in school earlier than I would have liked, ---- 9 wks into the year of 2nd grade.

[Doug1]

Oh My, I should have perhaps skipped over this one but the "gender neutrality" really hooked me. This recent trend coupled with the predilection to poison the young boys of America with Ritalin and other psycotrophic(?) drugs really ****** me off. The FDA recently approved Prozac for kids as young as 5 recently. I believe I heard or read that up to 25% of the school aged boys are on something. I know Kip Kengle had been on it a while before that mess happened.
It appears that being normal healthy boisterous, adventerous boys is now considered a form a treatable mental illness. I really dont get it, maybe I should have went to college at Berkely back then , maybe the agenda would be more palatable than it is now.
I tend to view this as an escalation from the 80's when the Womens Movemnt seem to be coming into its own. Now, though I tend to be conservative I am always trying to be on the side of fair,and I agree there have been inadequacies in the past that needed redress, but then again I have always thought that till we were all equal, none of us are truly free. However in 88 when I had taken photography classes thru the local Jr College and become involved in the local camera club, I was inspired by some of the Womens Art exhibits and got the topic "How I see "ME" as a man" (series of 5 photos minimum) accepted as a topic in camera club.
Now you gotta understand that the ages range from Retired to a few Hi schoolers, so we had some interesting submissions. I was so blown away by the images that i thought we should exhibit at the JC, so I approached one of the Club Officers who was also on college staff. Now mind you this is someone I considered a friend and she told me " The school will never allow it, because the womens studies gang will have a fit"
I submitted a request to the proper dept and was denied, I appealed to the President of the college, he was retiring so that got no where. 2 months later I got an invitation to a showing of "NW Women in Art" go figure

[uurt]

Yeah, it's true Doug, if women want, they can get a lawyer to do anything for them. Look at Augusta and the Master's fiasco. It's time that SOME (I stress the some, because it's NOT all, just a few) women who seem to think that a PRIVATE men's club is supposed to allow women as members need to realize that the supreme court has already upheld the rights of the private club to discriminate in who they chose as members. The clubs are, after all, PRIVATE!

Now, how many men want to get into a private womens club, and would they even be allowed??

As to the ritalin ?, well, maybe its time for another reading of Aldous Huxley's "A Brave New World".

Soma anybody?

I'll take my beer thank you vvery much.

Lee