This is why the BIG THREE should go under

[tdwyatt]

NOW I'M PISSED...

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...pStories_ssi_5

[crvz]

What a shame. I can't entirely blame the auto makers, but they could surely press the vehicle. Who cares if it's diesel.

[Phishnoob]

Don't they build great cars in Marysville, Ohio and Smyrna, Tennessee and down the street from Tom in Spartanburg. These plants are not the old school union type deals but make Hondas, Nissans and BMW's with a happy workforce and are profitable.

Of that 50 million dollar bailout 25 million goes to operate the plants and 25 million go straight to the unions for future free health care for employees and families.

I consider health care to be a privilage as well as my job which is to be earned. This entitlement stuff just doesn't work.

[Doug1]

With fuel prices dropping I am even more amoured with the deisel concept, I think hard core deisel hybrids would rock.. Rumor has it fords been selling cars and trucks in brazil with an engine thats basically half a Powerstroke Deisel, the sad thing is that if the big 3 go toots up, that hoses bout 5 times as many jobs in the support industies, which foreign language to learn

[Loverotties]

The top three are doing great! They are macthbox,hot wheels and corgi!Specialy with xmas coming up!

[Neuticle]

Nobody is blaming unions for ruining the competitiveness of the big three?

Let me be the first then.

[FishDaddy]

From the article:

Taxes aimed at commercial trucks mean diesel costs anywhere from 40 cents to $1 more per gallon than gasoline

I bought a diesel Toyota Camry back in 1984. Diesel was cheaper than Regular back then and that car got 42mpg. Who's responsible for those high taxes? Congress, of course.

First of all, the engines are built in Britain, so labor costs are high. Plus the pound remains stronger than the greenback. At prevailing exchange rates, the Fiesta ECOnetic would sell for about $25,700 in the U.S. By contrast, the Prius typically goes for about $24,000. A $1,300 tax deduction available to buyers of new diesel cars could bring the price of the Fiesta to around $24,400. But Ford doesn't believe it could charge enough to make money on an imported ECOnetic.

There's a whole mouthful of issues in that paragraph, from labor costs to the global economy. High labor costs in Britain? Then, why not build it here? Of course, our labor costs are high, too, but Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Mercedes-Benz, etc., don't seem to mind having factories here in the US.

US carmakers could have built energy-efficient cars decades ago but with cheap fuel and the oil companies desire to keep the pumps running wide open, there was no real incentive. Now look where the Big Three is heading.

A sad state of affairs.

Dick

[mmn_usn]

It is time for change.... and with the big 3 in trouble the oil companies may just figure that out.

But I am not helping the issue. I just bought an 09 subaru forester because our last forester had 170000 mile and started making some wierd noises. If I could do that with an american car.... and still have the AWD... I would buy american... but the decline in product and the increase in price.. I stayed with the foreign auto.

[jenglish]

it is a shame that the taxing of diesel makes it less competitive. I'm not sure of the logic of low taxes on commuting vehicles to the point where there was massive wastefulness but taxing the deisel that moves nearly everything. I also have a great appreciation for the reliabilty of a small diesel eingine. I used to have a Suzuki Samruai for some trailing and always longed for the Puegot turbo diesel option available in europe. I remember hearing a few years ago that they had developed a camless diesel that used hydraulics to actuate the valves. It was supposed to reduce the friction by like 1/3. But then I never heard of it again

[jenglish]

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[icebear]

Originally Posted by jenglish

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i find your implication insulting.

[Phishnoob]

Originally Posted by mmn_usn

It is time for change.... and with the big 3 in trouble the oil companies may just figure that out.

But I am not helping the issue. I just bought an 09 subaru forester because our last forester had 170000 mile and started making some wierd noises. If I could do that with an american car.... and still have the AWD... I would buy american... but the decline in product and the increase in price.. I stayed with the foreign auto.

Subarus are built in America, just like Honda's and Toyota's providing good cars and great jobs. The facility in Indiana is state of the art, and was the first to have Zero Landfill contributions with 100% recycling. Green, profitable and not dependent on the government, just building cars people desire. Subaru is now bringing in diesels through a large part of their product line in the next year or two.

I don't think they are union.

You can look at your VIN and the first couple of digits are the country of origin.

[icebear]

and replacement parts come from all over the place

[jenglish]

Originally Posted by Phishnoob

Subarus are built in America, just like Honda's and Toyota's providing good cars and great jobs. The facility in Indiana is state of the art, and was the first to have Zero Landfill contributions with 100% recycling. Green, profitable and not dependent on the government, just building cars people desire. Subaru is now bringing in diesels through a large part of their product line in the next year or two.

I don't think they are union.

You can look at your VIN and the first couple of digits are the country of origin.

multinational corperations have really muddied the waters on defining "American Car". THe (potential)upside of increasing energy costs are that they impose a sort of tarriff by increasing import (and export) costs. I actually find the T. Boone Pickens natural gas plan for freight transportation to be very intriguing. He wants to run trucks off of natural gas and increase renewable electricity.

[Phishnoob]

Originally Posted by jenglish

multinational corperations have really muddied the waters on defining "American Car". THe (potential)upside of increasing energy costs are that they impose a sort of tarriff by increasing import (and export) costs. I actually find the T. Boone Pickens natural gas plan for freight transportation to be very intriguing. He wants to run trucks off of natural gas and increase renewable electricity.

I am just some goofy nucular engineer, but don't they need an infrastructure for that?

There is a big old windmill farm you can see if you drop into LA and it is ugly. By comparison they have oil wells hidden in the trees all over the Central California coast and the oil companies have been pretty dang responsible since that minor Santa Barbara oil spill thing.

Alternative fuels are great but we will need to build market acceptance which is really the only way to pay for the transition. Tesla's are great but not quite what you need for a lot of folks that want to spend a day skiing and cover 400 miles.

The market will do what it is doing for trucks and huge V8 machines in year 2 of their product cycle. Unfortunately, the economy and oil situation caught the big three with their pants down. Only a select few will need a new King Ranch to replace their two year old one without the Nav system.

There is a big old middle ground for diesel and more economical cars without mandates that people will buy. The companies that adapt will survive. The ones that push crapmobiles with wheezy rental grade boring cars that get worse mileage than more refined machines will not. Sure the all new Malibu is something else...go buy one.