This is why the BIG THREE should go under

[jenglish]

I'm not real pleased that the big 3 execs came to beg for money in private jets and today UAW said that delaying a bailout ws not an option or something to that effect. It sounded kind of like entitlement. Like they deserved the bailout and if they didn't get it would be all the governments fault. At least thats how it read to me. I didn't really like the attitudes of any of the parties at the table. But maybe I'm just bitter

[OneDummHikk]

I will probably read about that tomorrow jenglish, it seems the local paper in hillbillyville is a day behind on the news. I need to change my location to "Downtown Hillbillyville".

But yes, its very unpleasing to see them show up in private jets to beg for money while complaining about how much money (cash) they are going through.

[dbjohnso]

I worked about 8 years for a company (mfgr) that had been in business for around 120 years...Went union in the late 80's, went bankrupt in early 2000's got purchased by a foreign company, dropped union representation and are back better then ever under new mgmt and business practices...

I was not union and if I attempted to transport more than (1) item at a time through the plant it was then considered a union job....I would then get to wait for several hours for a "material handler" to drive a forklift over to pick up a box that weighed all of 20 pounds......

sorry but the union I saw there every single day for 8 years cared nothing for the company as a whole and it showed when there was a chance to re-structure and not get bought out....They of course opted to stand on union principles and well.......

unions started for the right reason and perhaps sometimes succeed in protecting them from unfair working environments etc but it seems they have taken it from a "protection" and turned it in to a "im owed this because im in the union"......gets my annoyed when I remember guys saying..."why make 100 parts an hour when I will get paid the same if I only make 50"....

Sorry...went off there

I wish the "honest" hardworking ones luck and hope for them if the big 3 do go down they get grabbed up fast by a company that rewards hard work because they know its right and not because they "have to" by contract.

[Phishnoob]

My only experience with unions has been with trade shows. It takes 12 guys to get your booth set up, and I was not allowed to just do it with the warehouse guy.

We had to pay 120 dollars for a guy from a different trade to roll out a 10 x 10 carpet after waiting two hours for an "electrician" to duct tape down an extension cord.

This is a great deal I imagine, but a few small companies I worked for did not exhibit and promote business due to the extremely high cost. It just got in the way of free enterprise.

In current manufacturing the way Toyota does things is the model for all types of lean activities..it is actually called the Toyota model. Porsche hired some of these lean auto experts and the leader of them walked out of the Porsche factory in disgust on his first visit and said "show me your assembly line, not your warehouse". The BMW factory in Spartanburg transmits seat production orders to a factory across town and they get exactly the products they need in the exact order in five hours. Less than one gallon of paint is used to coat an entire Z4 which will look shiny in 25 years.

Companies need to get lean and competitive to compete. The Korean manufacturers are just a couple of years behind the Japanese in electronics and automobiles now. This threat is good as it forces the euro and other makes to keep the quality bar up. American makes seem to have a bye as it is not patriotic in some areas to buy a foreign make, although a Mexican or Canadian built "American" car is perfectly acceptable.

In these tough next few years things that are quality will sell and the junk will sit on the shelves as money becomes a lot more difficult to acquire and easy credit is not as easy.

America needs to build higher quality machines. Your average Toyota is pretty stripped without a compass in the rearview mirror and all those tacky things, but will run forever.

[OneDummHikk]

Speaking of Toyotas, I have a 1982 Toyota truck that has almost 300K miles on it (292 or so) and it runs. Needs a battery but thats it. My 2003 GMC Envoy has 110K on it and is about to fall apart. No way will it last me 300K miles. Will be lucky if I get 150K out of it and that it lasts until the loan is paid off.

But, not all "American made" equipment is made in the USA and not all foreign products are foreign made. I don't know about car parts in particular (never looked it up) but the majority of parts in a Harley-Davidson motorcycle are made overseas and assembled in the US. It is sold as "Made in America". Yet, the majority of parts in a Honda motorcycle are made in the US and assembled in Japan. I do think the motorcycle is a real strong exception to it though. They have changed the "Made in America" label to mean "Assembled in America".

As for unions, I have been on both sides of both sides. Union and non-Union as both a worker and as management. It was construction and construction is done a little differently than most manufacturing is done. We weren't hired as permanent help. You call the union and tell them how many of what trade you needed and for how long. If a worked didn't want to work, you simply refused him back and they sent someone else that would work. It keeps the people motivated to work. It does actually help a lot (the union) in the concrete finishing trade by promoting a safer workplace. Not as much as a dangerous thing but a safer environment by lessening the workload to the appropriate level. It is more of a win-win situation than what the UAW has going. I think teachers are another union that approaching the UAW but not near as influential on pay as the UAW is.

The one issue with the Union was in fact the payscale though. 22 dollars an hour for a guy that wasn' a carpenter but was a "helper". Glorified name for a semi-educated laborer that had handtools and could read a tape measure.

There are two sides to everything and I am neither pro- or anti- union as each situation is different.

[Scuba_Dave]

I was in a Union when I was 16 working as a BAGBOY for a grocery store. STUPIDEST thing there ever was. Because of the Union my rate was almost double min wage - good for me. But bad because they would only have one person on at a time - even if it was busy
Sundays I made 2x Pay - good for me - bad for the store

Less cashiers since everyone was Union
Less cashiers - slower checkout
Slower checkout = customers go elsewhere

Store down the way - non-Union, had more employees & the place did a TON of business