Any Atlantis Believers?

[galleon]

I didn't mention it in the hobbies thread, but one of my most consuming interests is ancient history and the possibilities of lost civilizations (more fact based ones than Atlantis, like those before Incans, the constructors of Tihuanaco, the Piri Reis source map-makers)... What are y'all's opinions on Plato's Atlantis?
Real or metaphor? Where would it be found most likely?
(anybody else like the Disney movie?)
Just for fun .
Chris

[MontanaRocknReefer]

Hey Chris! I have always enjoyed watching anything on lost civilizations and their way of life! As long as there are those who believe it to be real and if it is out there it will be found! I hope I am around when it is found! What a joyous thing that would be! Johnny

P.S. What are your thoughts on where it may be Chris?

[galleon]

Honestly, while historical evidence supports a lost civilization great in advancements and knowledge (the pale "Viracocha" in Inca areas several millenia ago, for example), I think that the specific example of Atlantis may likely be (unfortunately) nothing more than a metaphor or metaphor originally crafted by the Egyptians, deftly suited to fit into Plato's Timaeus and Critias.
Chris

[mojoreef]

Hey Chris I am a big fan of the ancient history. THe Atlantis one is a though one. Tira I would believe is the most likely, thier are just to many coincidences, so that would be my first one.

THe other kinda stems from a broader theory. This one is based on Atlantis being somewhere outside Gilbrata. It goes that thier was a small continant that was very well developed and used the building of Pyramids in their culture. Because of volcanic activity on the continant the ruller split his people into two huge groups (not knowing if thier was anything beyond the horizon) one group landed in Europe and the other in America. THe people continued to build pryamids as they evolved through time. The people continued to move untile after hundred of years ended up both settling in Egypt.

Sounds far fetched but you can trace the building of pyramids all along both tracts the people took. Also in Egypt until modren time South Egypt and North Egypt were seperate countries, with the same religon with the exception that the Southren Egyptians face west when praying and the northren ones face East.


take care
Mike

[FishDaddy]

Who knows?? Maybe Plato was just pulling our leg, like Orson Welles, or playing with realistic fantasy like George Orwell. Though he wrote in much detail, we don't really know his source, though it's speculated that he was passing on a legend heard from Egyptian sources. Santorini is a possible origin of the legend as this was the seat of the Minoan civilization and was wiped out by volcanic eruption about 1200 years before Plato. That's enough time for history to become sufficiently distorted through the retelling. Unfortunately, I know of no other historical documentation or reference to Atlantis before Plato, though I'm far from knowlegeable about these things.

The South American theory is interesting. Archeological evidence does suggest the existence of highly advanced civilizations long before the Incas and Aztecs. The ability to move huge pieces of stone for building purposes by ancient civilizations is intriguing. The Egyptians apparently built long ramps; possible in the flat country of the Pyramids; but how in the world did the ancient South Americans move such monoliths in the mountains?

Graham Hancock's Fingerprints of the Gods, which I picked up at your suggestion, raises some real questions about the presence of intellectually advanced people; both European and African, long before the Incas. Unfortunately, there's little in the way of artifacts besides the stone structures and carvings to lend further information. (I'm still aggravated at the Spaniards for destroying the libraries of the Aztecs and melting down the gold and silver artifacts of the Incas!!!) The representations of people with clearly European and African features in the ancient carvings and statuary cannot be ignored. That, coupled with the undeniable DNA evidence linking the Indians of Tierro del Fuego to Western Pacific or African ancestors is additional evidence that the Americas were not populated alone by Asian migrations across the Arctic land bridge.


The Viracocha legend, in varying forms, does, indeed, suggest a very superior source of intellectual information that was passed to the local populace.


Yes, archeological evidence abounds that many ancient civilizations and settlements were destroyed by flood and earthquake, not to mention the stories and legends, but whether these were of Atlantian proportions or just coincidence, leaves plenty of room for speculation and lots of impetus for further scientific investigation.

Meanwhile, I'm content to read the stories and await THE archeological discovery of proof. Maybe you will be the one to do that for us someday??
Dick

[dark horge]

Dunno about either "Atlantis" or "Lemuria",


but the prevalence of pyramidal structures across continents is easily explained by the simplicity of conceptual engineering behind them ---and the simple stability such shapes offer.

[dark horge]

Also, I have to caution against interpretation of Olmec statuary as bearing Negroid features AUTOMATICALLY suggesting transAtlantic immigration from Africa.

Asians are not solely Mongoloid in form!
Quite a number of quasi-Negroid peoples were past masters at traipsing all over the Pacific.

Think Fijian wrestler and look at that monolith again


Anyway, if the Romans could maintain sea-trade with ancient Filipinos and Javans, what's so hard in imagining tall-story-swapping (and repeated elaboration on the same) about sunken continents between mariners all over the globe?

[galleon]

...and the simple stability such shapes offer.

Exactly. Is it too much to put the principle of parsimony (Okham's razor) to work here: the Egyptians saw that triangulars are what existed in natural rock formations, and thus stood up to the local conditions?

Anyway, if the Romans could maintain sea-trade with ancient Filipinos and Javans, what's so hard in imagining tall-story-swapping (and repeated elaboration on the same) about sunken continents between mariners all over the globe?

This very idea makes me even more eager to someday learn fact from fiction in history... but many can rarely do it in the present

Chris

[FishDaddy]

Originally posted by dark horge
Also, I have to caution against interpretation of Olmec statuary as bearing Negroid features AUTOMATICALLY suggesting transAtlantic immigration from Africa.

Horge,
I didn't mean to imply that I thought the evidence neccesarily suggests Atlantic migration, though certainly a possibility, a la' Thor Heyerdal.

The Fuegian DNA tests infer Southern Asian forebears of probable African mixed origin, which would include the Samoans or other SoPac seafarers. Of course, according to the Leakey's, we are all remote descendants of Lucy!! As humans are both mobile and fertile, any straight-line analysis of genealogy is most improbable.

I agree that the presence of pyramids really doesn't prove cross-linkage of civilizations.

I still don't know how the ancient South Americans moved those big rocks!!!
Dick

[galleon]

The first peoples in the "new world" were likely aboriginal, possibly over 50,000 years ago. It may have been accidental (the cave paintings allegedly wrought by these negroid peoples that show giant armadillos gone before the last ice age, also show an ocean-going vessel of high-prowed architecture), judging by the remoteness of the original population in Brazil. However, they were all but wiped out by Asian peoples that migrated later. The last surviving remants of the original peoples of the Americas likely live in Terra del Fuego. Any major populations of the aboriginal peoples were likely gone by 7,000 years ago.
Chris

[hesaias]

Im sure of lost civilizations, and I know you said fact based(although I firmly believe this is fact), so you may discount this, but Im convinced that antedeluvian earth was most advanced. Probably even more so than we are now. Maybe not advanced in the realm of electronics, computers and such, but I believe they had a firm grasp on harnessing natural forms of energy, such as solar, hydro, magnetic, kinetic, sound and such. They didnt need internal combustion or steam.
I also believe the pyramids were built before the flood. Just before actually.
But such as I believe