icebear's blog

[icebear]

Planning to work on a 110g FOwLR with a niger trigger, burrfish (not the commoner porcupine puffer) a foxface rabbit fish and maybe a longhorn boxfish.

i plan to have an SSB and just run basic NO lighting, i am researching what skimmer i want.

i also plan to make my own rock and only seed with a few pounds of figi LR

i am still looking into what sort of cleanup crew i can have that won't get eaten, and i plan to use various 'decorative' macro algaes for both aquascaping and some nutrient export.

from what i understand, my planned inhabitants would make short work of corals so there won't be any, but my lighting won't be anywhere near sufficient in any case.

I am currently saving the $ for the 110, stand and hood, i have my eye on a spesific one that is at the LFS where i work and it is the only one left, so i am praying it won't be sold before i can get the $$ together.

If all goes well and the tank dosen't find a home before i buy it, it could be in my house with water in it by January 07.

[icebear]

nothing entirely new today, but its a few more closer to PayDay when i can start saving the $$ to buy the tank. It hasn't been sold to someone else yet... keep fingers crossed for me!

[icebear]

here's a non update.

nothing new, but not giving up yet...

[icebear]

(Odonus niger)

Quick Stats
Minimum Tank Size: 70 gallons Care Level: Easy Tank Conditions: 72-78°F; sg 1.020-1.025; pH 8.1-8.4; dKH 8-12 Max. Size In Aquarium: Up to 1' Color Form: Blue, Green Temperament: Aggressive Reef Compatible: No Diet: Carnivore Compatibility: View Chart Origin: Fiji, Tahiti Family: Balistidae

From Drs Foster Smith. com

From saltwater fish .com:

"The Niger Trigger, a.k.a. Red Tooth Trigger, is a dark blue-purplish colored Trigger with dark eyes. These fish are one of the least aggressive Triggers and do well in a community aquarium."

From Blue Zoo Aquatics:

REEF COMPATIBLE	With Caution
MINIMUM TANK SIZE	75 gallons
CARE LEVEL	Beginner
MAX. SIZE IN AQUARIUM	20 inches
DISPOSITION	Semi-aggressive
HARDINESS	Hardy
DIET	Omnivore
ORIGIN	Indo-Pacific
SANDBED	No
BOOK REFERENCE	Marine Fishes - Scott Michaels page 398

From Fish Domain . com

• Distribution
  
  Indian-Pacific, Red Sea.
• Diet & Feeding
  
  flake & pellet, any type of meaty food. Bold feeder
• Aquarium Behavior
  Peaceful overall one of the few triggers suitable for the community aquarium.
• Invertebrate compatibility
  
  Absolutely Not Recommended.

• Length
  500mm/20" (wild), 250m,12" (aquarium)
• Temperature
  
  78°F - 81°F
• Salinity
  
  1.021 to 1.023

from Marine Depot Live:


Niger Trigger - Odonus niger

Maximum Size: the Odonus niger grows up to 12 inches.
General Size Specifications: The small size will come to you generally 1 to 2 inches; the medium generally 3 to 4 inches; the large generally 5 to 6 inches.
Minimum Tank Size: The Niger Trigger prefers a tank of at least 100 gallons with plenty of places to hide & swim.
Diet: The Odonus niger is a carnivore and likes to eat variety of meats (fish, scallop, shrimp, squid, clam) & veggies.
Level of Care: The Niger Trigger is a low maintenance fish.
Behavior: The Niger Trigger may act aggressively toward other fish.
Hardiness: This is a hardy fish.
Water Conditions: Keep water quality high (SG 1.020 - 1.025, pH 8.1 - 8.4, Temp. 72 - 78° F).
Range: Indo-Pacific.
General Notes: The Odonus niger or Niger Triggerfish (pronounced nie-jur) is suitable to be kept in reef aquaria. Usually not aggrssive to tankmates, may become bolder with time. Will eat ornamental shrimps and crusteaceans. More than one can be kept providing they are added at the same time. Plenty of live rock with holes need to be provided. Tends to bite.

From poseidon's realm:
Identification: This species is black overall with noticeably red teeth. This black coloration will vary from region to region with some individuals having a greenish tinge and some having a bluish tinge.
Maximum Length: Attains a length of approximately 18-19 inches
Origin: Indo-Pacific
Minimum tank size: 75 Gallon
Behavior: Initially this species may hide, but once acclimated, it will be out in the open a great deal of the time. Of all the triggerfish species, this is one of the least aggressive, with the aquarist even being able to keep this species in a community aquarium.
Feeding and diet: Mixed diet of meaty foods, including chopped shrimp, scallop, squid, clam and fish.
Reef Compatibility: Unlike most of the other triggerfish, the Niger Trigger can actually be kept in a reef aquarium since it generally does not feed upon any types of corals. The aquarist should be aware that this species may pick at ornamental shrimp and crabs, particularly if they are added to the aquarium after the Niger Trigger has been added.
Cautions: May bite. Before cleaning tank or putting hands in tank make sure you know where it is.

[icebear]

From Wet Web Media:

-A Niger Fakes it-
Hello

I bought a Niger triggerfish a week ago.

Did you Q/t this fish?

He seems very active with my damsel, but when he stops moving he lays on his left side on the bottom of the tank in the same spot.

Well they do tend to have personality "quirks" and each does different things to get us to pay attention.

Is this normal behavior of this fish?

Could be, But I really need to know if this fish was q/ted or even freshwater dipped as it might be sick. Is it eating well, swimming normally and not having any spots etc?

I have just a 20 gal. tank with crushed coral bottom and 5 live rocks.

Ok here is the problem, Not only was it not q/t ed its in a tank that is way too small for this fish. While it may be fine now and the laying on the substrate is normal (Mine does it sometimes to get more food), it will get way too large for this tank and will get sick soon if it isn't already. I hope your tank is not infected with any diseases from this fish, but please quarantine your fish for at least 4 weeks before putting them in your display. If any of them are sick or have ich then they will infect everything and its a hassle to get everything well. Also please research your fish on WWM before buying them. This fish will get 8" to 15" or more in some cases. Can you handle a 80-120 gallon tank for it?

Thanks, John
Justin (Jager)


From The Marine Center:

Latin Name	Odonus niger
Common Name	Niger Trigger RED SEA
Also known as	Redtooth Triggerfish, Niger Trigerfish, Black Triggerfish, Purple Triggerfish
Fast Facts	The Red Sea Niger Trigger is known for its large size and superior quality. Availability is highly unpredictable, they're never plentiful and they sell fast. Be sure to act fast when available. Usually around 5" and up, unlike Niger Triggers from other areas, which are much smaller. Like many triggers, this species can be quite shy when first placed in the tank, but usually becomes very brazen in time. This species is not extremely aggressive. Most individuals can be kept housed in a community aquarium with similarly-sized fishes. You should add your niger trigger to the tank after the more passive species have settled in. Although both juveniles and adults readily acclimate to aquarium life, younger specimens tend to do so with greater ease. Provide this fish with suitable hiding places, like a piece of branching or foliose coral or a chunk of live rock with an appropriate-sized hole for it to retreat into if threatened. Before you take out your aquarium decorations to clean or relocate them, make sure you know where your niger triggerfish is.
Sizes	Large/Around 4"-5" X-Large/Around 5"-6" Show/Around 6"-7"
Range in Nature	Red Sea
Minimum Aquarium Size	55
Diet and Feeding	Offer a varied diet of mixed meaty seafoods. Easy to feed.
Ease of Care(5=easy, 1=difficult)
Reef Aquarium Compatibility	Can be housed in reefs, harmless to corals, but may nip at sponges, tunicates, ornamental crustaceans an snails. To keep with cleaner shrimps, add the shrimps first.

From Just About Fish . com:

Niger Trigger / Odonus niger Attaining a length of approximately 18-19 inches, this species is black overall with noticeably red teeth. This black coloration will vary from region to region with some individuals having a greenish tinge and some having a bluish tinge.
This species is a hardy aquarium species accepting a variety of prepared foods. Initially this species may hide, but once acclimated, it will be out in the open a great deal of the time.
Of all the triggerfish species, this is one of the least aggressive, with the aquarist even being able to keep this species in a community aquarium.
This species does not make a good reef aquarium fish because it will eat many small decorative crabs and other invertebrates.

[icebear]

From "That Pet Place" :

Species Profile:
	Common Name: Niger Trigger, Black Triggerfish			Scientific Name: Odonus niger
	Origin: Indo-Pacific and Red Sea			Restricted: No
	Diet: Carnivore			Max Size: 20" (inches)
Water Conditions:			Compatibility:
	Tank Size: 75 (gallons) *			Reef Safe: No
	Temp: 74 - 82 (Fahrenheit) *			Invert Safe: No *
	S.G.: 1.020 - 1.025 *			Community Safe: No *
	pH: 8.1 - 8.4 *			Venomous: No
	Difficulty: 3 (scale of 1-low to 10-high)
* For MOST fish
General Info:
	Although Niger Triggers can reach 20 inches in the wild they usually only reach about 10 inches in captivity. The Niger Trigger has a body that can range from blue to green to purple in color with a crescent shaped caudal fin. The teeth are usually red. Niger Triggers are usually fairly sociable and relatively peaceful but should not be kept with shy smaller fish. They will eat most invertebrates and should not be kept in a reef aquarium. Niger Triggers are hardy and easy to feed, accepting most meaty foods.

[icebear]

From Cowfishes . com:

This species has many names because its color is highly variable. It is called Niger Triggerfish, Black Triggerfish, Blue Triggerfish, Green Triggerfish, and Redtooth Triggerfish. It is the only species in the genus, but one of the best known. Its variable color is a result of mood. Before aquarists eyes, the fish will change from blue to black. At times it will even change to dark green or dark blue. The attractive coloring that this fish is known for is enhanced with a good feedings and illumination.
Another unusual feature of this fish is its conspicuous, red teeth. It also has a distinguishing protruding chin and long tail lobes.
This species approaches 19 inches and requires an aquarium of 75 gallons. This is one of the few Triggerfish species consistently described as peaceful. Even so, aquarists will want to all plenty of swimming room for this fish. When it swims fast, the propelling fins flap from side to side without undulation, making a wondrous display of locomotion. It will appreciate some live rock as place to hide when feeling threatened.
They are somewhat reef compatible. Although they will not harm corals, they will nip at sponges, tunicates, ornamental crustaceans, and snails. Cleaner shrimp may be kept with this species, but they must be added to the tank before the fish.
It is usually peaceful to other tank mates. Upon acclimation, it is shy but eventually becomes sociable. This is one triggerfish species that may be kept with more than one of its own kind. However, the individuals must be added simultaneously, as small juveniles for this to be possible. Aquarists must be careful when working in the tank, however. This species is known to bite lurking hands.

[icebear]

From Cowfishes . com:
How large of a tank is needed to keep cowfish? The most commonly available cowfish require a tank of at least 75 gallons. This is the bare minimun. 125 gallons is better. Some sources recommend as much s 180 gallons for the Long-horned species. Smaller species, such as the Thornback or Hovercraft, may be comfortable in as small as 55 gallons.

From Animal-world . com

Maintenance difficulty:
The Cowfish, Longhorn Cowfish, or Long-horned Cowfish is easy to keep. Boxfish are not challenging if you feed young specimens several times a day. Start with brine shrimp.
Maintenance:
Feed all kinds of live and frozen foods. The boxfish also eats greenstuffs. Best to feed small amounts several times a day. We generally feed squid, shrimp (the same kind people eat), mussels, and all kinds of chopped up fish. Be sure to wash these foods thoroughly before feeding. A good formula like Formula II is also beneficial. Live fish will also be taken but should not be fed exclusively.
Habitat: Natural geographic location:
Cowfish, Longhorn Cowfish, or Long-horned Cowfish are found in the Indo-Pacific.
Foods:
All kinds of meaty foods and greenstuffs. A bottom feeder. Puffers are primarily predatory fish in the wild though they do graze on a bit of algae. This puffer will enjoy all kinds of meaty foods including shrimp, worms, clams, various mussels, snails, tunicates, and fish.They are not picky eaters and will quickly become adapted to a variety of prepared aquarium foods and an occasional algae wafer. Flake food is not recommended.

Social Behaviors:
Apparently this fish is sometimes aggressive and sometimes not. Keep an eye on newcomers with an established boxfish and any new boxfish that are added to the aquarium
Temperature:
No special requirements. Normal temperatures for marine fish is between 74 and 79 degrees Fahrenheit.
Length/Diameter of fish:
Cowfish, Longhorn Cowfish, or Long-horned Cowfish adults can grow to 50.0 cm (20 inches). They usually only get about 40.0 cm (16 inches) in aquariums. Their size can be deceiving since they are usually very small at the pet stores.
Minimum Tank Length/Size:
A minimum 100 gallon aquarium is recommended.
Water Movement: Weak, Moderate, Strong
No special requirements.
Water Region: Top, Middle, Bottom
No special requirements.


Pertinent comments from this same page:


Category: cowfish

Number of comments: 9

The Cowfish is by far my all time favorite. He lives with a Porcupine, Valintine and a Box. They all get along fine. Cow is so tame, I can pet his head between the horns. He's never let out the poison. They grow very fast! and eat like a cow 2 years old and 3" tall x 6" long body plus another 2" tail fin. It would eat constanty, but when he starts to spit back food as he eats, he's full. Cowfish are the closest thing to having a "Real Pet you can play with". They like people, are easy to care for, and always are happy to see you!
chris 2006-04-29
I have had several Cowfish over the years and have found them to be a delight. No other fish expresses personality like a cowfish, they are so friendly. I have never been able to feed a Cowfish too much; they a perpetually hungry. When I have had Cowfish die in every instance it has been due to parasites brought into the take by a new addition and they have never released any poison. They are by far my favourite marine fish!
Peter Wickert 2005-12-26
I have a longhorn cowfish named SPIKE. I have to sat that he/she is by far most simple fish to care for that I have ever had. He often begs for food and as we found out the other day gets very depressed when he can not see people. We have a blackout curtian on the tank due to to many windows in my place. we left it on a bit too long, and after taking it off Spike was dark in color and very reclusive. Also I think that it takes alot for them to release any toxin. Spike when we first got him got stuck in an intake and wound up breaking off one of his horns(it has since grown back) with no toxin release. Also he has chased a piece of food up the refugium intake and got his mouth stuck. He was stuck for atleast an hour before I noticed him (I have spike proofed the tank since then). He came out with a big hikky but again no toxin. We have also moved the tank and him without any toxin release. Needless to say I think that toxin release is very rare and most average aquarium stress will not be enough to provoke release.
Josh 2005-12-16
i have kept cowfish for 20 years and i own a marine only shop and i have never seen a captive cowfish over 23cm. I had one who was called moo and lived like 10 years. all other captive cowfish only grew to around 20cm. moo lived in a 180 gallon tank with two clowns all his life and they were completely fine and super tame
ben crowson 2004-12-19
I had a longhorned cowfish for five years and then it suddenly died. The truth about the poison is that unless the fish is stressed or being attacked at the time of death it will not release the poison.
kyle 2004-12-02
Yes I have also heard that this fish will excert a poision if stressed. But they are very fun looking
Sarah 2004-08-25
My longhorned cowfish is most unique fish I have ever seen. He is pleasant and fun to watch. I shared his picture with all my friend!
Keisha 2004-08-25
I have a long horned cow named pickle, but am worried because I have been told that if he dies my whole tank will die too as he is poisenous. But so far so good, and you guys say he is easy to keep. He is really friendly, and a very interesting fish.
tennille 2003-11-04

...more to be added...

[icebear]

From Aquaria Central. com

Lactoria cornuta

---

Other names:...........Common Cowfish
Origin:......................Tropical Indo-Pacific
Max size:..................20"
Temperature:...........75-86 F.
Min tank size:..........75 gallons
Food:.........................small live foods

from Pet Education. com which i think isby Drs Foster Smith:

Quick Stats: Longhorn Cowfish Family: Ostraciidae
Range: Indo-Pacific
Size: Up to 20 inches
Diet: Omnivore
Tank Set-up: Marine: Coral or rock, plants
Reef Compatible: With caution
Tank Conditions: 72-78ºF; sg 1.020-1.025; pH 8.1-8.4
Minimum Tank Capacity: 125 gallon
Light: Medium
Temperament: Peaceful
Venomous: Yes
Swimming Level: No specific level
Care Level: Difficult ?
Reproduction: Egg Layer


From Marine Depot Live:






Longhorn Cowfish - Lactoria cornuta

Also known as: Yellow Boxfish, Longhorn Cowfish


Maximum Size: the Lactoria cornuta grows up to 18 inches.
Minimum Tank Size: The Longhorn Cowfish prefers a tank of at least 150 gallons with plenty of places to hide & swim.
Diet: The Lactoria cornuta is a omnivore and likes to eat variety of chopped foods (meats & veggies), bloodworms or live Mysis Shrimp.
Level of Care: The Longhorn Cowfish is a high maintenance fish.
Behavior: The Longhorn Cowfish may act peacefully toward other fish. It is a venomous fish, ostracitoxin. Warning signs include stress and concavity in the side walls.
Hardiness: Difficult to keep in capitivity
Water Conditions: Keep water quality high (SG 1.020 - 1.025, pH 8.1 - 8.4, Temp. 72 - 78° F).
General Notes: Lactoria cornuta (Linnaeus 1758), the Longhorn Cowfish. One of most popular of this family, and the mascot for Marine Depot Live!! It should be attempted only by expert aquarists. The Cowfish is a desirable fish to hobbyists due to its comedic look, and its ability to adapt well to the aquarium environment. Juveniles of this species mainly occur in Brackish water, and then migrate to straight Saltwater upon maturing. The Longhorned Cowfish is brilliant yellow in color with bright blue spots in the center of each piece of its body plating. Cowfish should not be kept with aggressive or fast moving fishes and their skin can be damaged by the actions of cleaner fish. Cowfish should not be kept with other cowfish, as they can be territorial. Cowfish have been placed in aquariums with Invertebrates, but may possibly pick on tube worms. This fish can emit a toxin if it dies that may kill fish in your tank. Keep plenty of carbon on hand to use in case of death. Carbon filtration and large water changes should keep any disaster from happening.

[icebear]

From Drs Foster Smith:

Quick Stats

Minimum Tank Size: 125 gallons

Care Level: Difficult

Tank Conditions: 72-78°F; sg 1.020-1.025; pH 8.1-8.4; dKH 8-12

Max. Size In Aquarium: Up to 1' 8"

Color Form: Yellow, White

Temperament: Peaceful

Reef Compatible: With Caution

Caution: Poisonous When Stressed or Dies

Diet: Omnivore

Compatibility: View Chart

Origin: Indo-Pacific

Family: Ostraciidae

From Marine Center .com:

Latin Name	Lactoria cornuta
Common Name	Longhorn Cowfish
Also known as	Longhorned Cowfish
Fast Facts	This odd-looking longhorn cowfish makes for a fascinating display animal if you have the right captive venue, which the typical home aquarium is not. It should be housed with exceptionally passive, non-aggressive tankmates. If housed with aggressive feeders, (such as any fish that moderately active and feeds well) the Longhorn Cowfish may have trouble competing for food. Make sure you keep an eye on this fish during feeding time if kept with fish that feed well, and beware that it may never adapt if kept in such a situation. This fish will fare best if kept with docile, dissimilar fishes such as bottom dwelling fishes such as gobies, etc. Any fish that is an active swimmer and good feeder will likely put the cowfish in the position of never getting enough food. It is possible to keep more than one in the same tank (especially young individuals), but adults may quarrel. It will not usually bother other fishes. When first introduced to its new home it can be easily startled. It is not uncommon for this species to dash about the tank and may collide with rockwork or the sides of the tank. Once acclimated, this behavior will stop. It is an active species that can grow quite large with ideal care, so make sure you provide it with plenty of swimming room. Although this species is reported to have the ability to release toxins if stressed like the other trunkfishes, it is apparently less likely to do so and/or the toxin is not as lethal. This species is susceptible to Cryptocaryon and Lymphocystis. It is best not to house it with cleaner wrasses, as these wrasses will incessantly chase and try to clean them, which will result in problems. Note that the horns of this species grow shorter as the fish gets larger. The tail is longer in older specimens.
Sizes	Small/Specimens are around .75" - 1" Medium/Specimens are around 1.5" - 2.5" Large/Specimens are around 3" - 4" X-Large/Specimens are around 4" - 5"
Range in Nature	Indo-Pacific
Minimum Aquarium Size	20 ???
Diet and Feeding	Carnivore, provide a varied diet that includes frozen preparations for carnivores.
Ease of Care(5=easy, 1=difficult)
Reef Aquarium Compatibility	While it can be kept with large, stinging sea anemones, it is not well-suited to the reef aquarium as it is likely to eat many

[icebear]

Here's another Non-Update....


Tank got sold, trigger got sold and i kinda changed my mind at the time anyway. too much of an uphill battle for me at this time. Was fun looking into it all though.

Right now i have a 10 gallon tank and have a 30 gallon tank with 25# tonga branch just hanging around waiting for me to do something with it. i picked up an "oyster toadfish" and am planning a 29 eclipse tank with DSB, tonga branch and a garden of macro algaes. Since i work at the LFS i can special order just about anything thats available, so whenever macro algaes pop up on the list,. i go for it. I pay cost only and some for shipping so its not expensive to experiment on plants.


So, thats what i plan on right now.
i havn't totally decided on the Eclipse system, but i have a 30 tank as always and may have have hubby help me rewire up an OD light again, my old lights were corroded by salt creep and about 2 years of non-use.

i am also on the bunny trail learning more about freshwater planted tanks. At the LFS that i work at, we just revamped our freshwater plant display and i'm trying to contribute as positively as i can. So thats where i'm at, for the update

[icebear]

NEW Update!!!

Still got the 30L and Todd is still kicking, he's close to 8" long now


i just ordered some mushroons, rics, a sarcophyton and zoas from Blue Zoo. they will come in tomorrow and i can't wait. i also grabbed some flatworm exit, i'm tired of trying to keep up siphoning them out. i have heard the stuff is safe as long as water changes are done as the flats release toxins upon death. i have a bucket of IO coming from Drs F&S to make sure i am not tempted to skimp on the WC.

Glad i never went with the big tank, it would have been too much for hubby to handle after my car wreck. it was bad enough he didn't dare to touch the 30 and i had a mess to clean by the time i could (no WC for almost 7 months!).

I plan to take pics of the new BZA stuff for later reference.

[icebear]

i got my BZA order and things are looking really nice this morning. the rocks were full of polyps and i had a number of loose shrooms to re-attach. i think i rubberbanded a few too tight because they are splitting, its been too long since i have done these things. i have some plastic mesh fabric (bridal veil) someplace in my craft supplies, but like most of us crafty girls that are working moms (until recently), my supplies are in complete disarray.
i have plenty of attached shrooms i may just let the loose discs fall where they may and see where they pop up. I'll keep an eye on the powerhead screens

here's my order during acclimation:

[icebear]

ok, now that the first livestock order in over a year (IIRR) is doing well... except for the splitting/escaping shrooms and rics.... i posted a question about using sand dollars for 'frag plates' since i have no LR rubble left.

I have been doing a lot of ordering of things i kinda should have had a while ago. My tank does have close to if not more than 30# of LR, but some of it is pretty dense and i like the look of a fuller tank, so i ordered 35 more pounds of dry base rock from Live Brine Shrimp.com . The total cost is $99.80 with shipping. If it dosen't all fit in the MT i can stick some in the sump.
I also ordered from Drs Foster & Smith, from them i got a refractometer, an Eshopps 300 overflow box and an Ocean Runner 2500 return pump, the Coralife Super Skimmer came in today. I will have to wait to install the skimmer in-sump because there is not enough clearance behind my main tank to install it there. And the Rio internal pump it comes with is big also.

I also have the Flatworm exit here and a 5 gallon bucket of salt. I decided to hold off on the FE for a bit, i want the base rock to come in and i will cure it in the tank that will be the sump, once that is cycled i will put Todd and the snails in there to stay safe while i treat the main tank, one i get the main tank all stable again with BIG water changes and lots of carbon, i will hook the two tanks together and put Todd back in the Main Tank with his buddies.

So, getting this done depends on how fast DHL will get me my Livebrineshrimp.com rock

I will clean the freshies out of the soon to be sump tank this weekend maybe or early next week.
I only have 2 tetras and a cory cat left in there so they will be fine in a 10 gallon tank i have getting ready for them. The live plants will also fit.

Another thing i just bought were new test kits. i got API again, since i have never had issues with them other than colorblindness. I got the Master SW kit plus the Phosphate test kit.

I think thats it for now.

[icebear]

oh, i always leave such long gaps between posts!

i had done another BZA order later in the fall...




the green spaghetti leather did not make it, i had to fight off some zoa-eating nudibranchs (but i won and the zoas have recovered completely), the round brain suffered from light starvation while i was in the hospital with the baby- hubby kept forgetting to turn on the lights for most of a week, but it looks like it will recover. the candy cane has doubled and the GSP and PSP have done well. so it went well for that order.