400w vs 250w

Hobbzz · 06-16-2008, 07:18 PM

I recently upgraded to a 120 and the tank came with a PFO dual 400w hqi ballast and bulbs. I was worried about tripping the breaker in the old condo I live in but everything was fine...until my roommate brought home a 42" plasma HDTV that runs on almost 3 times the power of the old tv (in the living room with the tank). Now with both bulbs running and the tv on it trips the breaker. And to add insult to injury, most of the channels I watch aren't available in HD so most of the time the picture looks like crap!

So I've got two choices.

1.- Stick with the 400w bulbs. Run them for 7.5 hours each at different times. Never having both on at the same time. So at all times, one side will be getting good light, and the other will just be getting scattered, weak light. Then the sides will reverse when the two bulbs change.

2.- Trade the 400w ballast and bulbs for a 250w hqi ballast, and run a normal pattern.

That being said, I don't want to get rid of the 400w ballast, because I'd like to use it after I move out and don't want to have to buy another. But I can't afford to outright buy another lighting setup after just buying this one. So I would have to get rid of the 400w setup if I went with the 250's.

Some other things to note.

1.- I will be running 20k Radiums on either setup, so I'll be getting literally half the par if I went down to 250w with the same relfectors. No supplementation.

2.- The 400w setup came with a standard reflector. Just a square "U" reflector with two 90 degree bends. I'll be using this with the 400w if I keep them. If I go with the 250w, I'll use them until I can scrape up the cash for some decent reflectors (Lumenmax, Lumenbright, Lumenarc etc), or until my old tank sells. This might be a while.

3.- Tank is and always will be sps dominated. I also like to keep clams and sps on the bottom. This is a very important point.

If I can get the same or better par/ppfd values with the 250w in a good reflector than I can using the 400w on a crap reflector I'll go with those. I'm pretty sure I can, but I'm having trouble finding info with the time constraints that I have.
I'm all for saving money on the electric bill.

So what do you guys think? Am I missing something blatantly obvious because I've been racking my brain? I should be able to get better par values using the 250w in a good reflector right? What would you guys do?

Jadinop · 06-16-2008, 07:45 PM

Any chance of plugging the tv into another circuit? Is it tripping just the one breaker or the main breaker? Maybe something as simple as finding a outlet in the next room and wiring up another outlet into that through the wall. I wouldn't be suprised if hiring an electrician would cost you less than the lighting swap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbzz

I recently upgraded to a 120 and the tank came with a PFO dual 400w hqi ballast and bulbs. I was worried about tripping the breaker in the old condo I live in but everything was fine...until my roommate brought home a 42" plasma HDTV that runs on almost 3 times the power of the old tv (in the living room with the tank). Now with both bulbs running and the tv on it trips the breaker. And to add insult to injury, most of the channels I watch aren't available in HD so most of the time the picture looks like crap!

So I've got two choices.

1.- Stick with the 400w bulbs. Run them for 7.5 hours each at different times. Never having both on at the same time. So at all times, one side will be getting good light, and the other will just be getting scattered, weak light. Then the sides will reverse when the two bulbs change.

2.- Trade the 400w ballast and bulbs for a 250w hqi ballast, and run a normal pattern.

That being said, I don't want to get rid of the 400w ballast, because I'd like to use it after I move out and don't want to have to buy another. But I can't afford to outright buy another lighting setup after just buying this one. So I would have to get rid of the 400w setup if I went with the 250's.

Some other things to note.

1.- I will be running 20k Radiums on either setup, so I'll be getting literally half the par if I went down to 250w with the same relfectors. No supplementation.

2.- The 400w setup came with a standard reflector. Just a square "U" reflector with two 90 degree bends. I'll be using this with the 400w if I keep them. If I go with the 250w, I'll use them until I can scrape up the cash for some decent reflectors (Lumenmax, Lumenbright, Lumenarc etc), or until my old tank sells. This might be a while.

3.- Tank is and always will be sps dominated. I also like to keep clams and sps on the bottom. This is a very important point.

If I can get the same or better par/ppfd values with the 250w in a good reflector than I can using the 400w on a crap reflector I'll go with those. I'm pretty sure I can, but I'm having trouble finding info with the time constraints that I have.
I'm all for saving money on the electric bill.

So what do you guys think? Am I missing something blatantly obvious because I've been racking my brain? I should be able to get better par values using the 250w in a good reflector right? What would you guys do?

Hobbzz · 06-16-2008, 08:43 PM

There are only two circuits for outlets in the condo. And the microwave trips the other, so I'm sure these would. When I say old, I mean it was probably built in the 60's or 70's. So even if installing a new breaker would be feesible I'm sure I couldn't do it without upgrading the wiring, and I just rent, I don't own. Running an extension cord was the first thing I thought of, then he told me about the microwave on the other circuit. The two circuits for outlets are only 15A each.

OneDummHikk · 06-17-2008, 01:03 AM

I would start with the alternating light sequence. Have only one on at a time. The breaker won't get tripped, you get the 400W lights, you just don't get them both at the same time.

If that didn't work out, or you aren't happy with it, then you can consider the 250 option.

Thought: The canopy for my 120 isn't on the tank (I still haven't solved the water leak issue). I can put the canopy in my Envoy, bring it over there with the ballast, we can try the 250's on your tank (my canopy has 2 250W MH fixtures in it) and see how it looks to you. I need to replace both bulbs in my fixtures (one is broke, not sure how old the other one is). Maybe Eddie (Bioreef) or Rob has some 20K bulbs that we could test with (I don't want 20K bulbs for mine right now) but we could see how well it performs for you.

The reflectors on mine are the simple ones and sound almost like the reflectors you have. Not a high end reflector. Although I do have a template for a DIY reflector for the MH fixtures (single end bulbs).

Call me if you still have my number. I slept til 4 today and will probably be up way past the time the sun comes up in the morning.

dacro · 06-17-2008, 07:55 AM

Hobbzz, have you ever thought about getting rid of your roommate? hahaha

Seriously, if you decide to go back to 250's then spend a few bucks on the new lumenarc reflectors (I'm dying to try them on our tank).

silvers · 06-17-2008, 07:57 AM

Can you not run a dedecated breaker to the tank I would pay someone to do it before getting rid of the lights you like.

OneDummHikk · 06-17-2008, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacro

Hobbzz, have you ever thought about getting rid of your roommate? hahaha

Seriously, if you decide to go back to 250's then spend a few bucks on the new lumenarc reflectors (I'm dying to try them on our tank).

Dacro, I have a template for a DIY lumenarc style reflector. If I can find a local source for aluminum sheet, we could make one and try it and see how well it works.

RealFishy1 · 06-17-2008, 08:54 AM

How about using 1 400watt pendant and run a light trolley.

Bennihanna · 06-17-2008, 09:49 AM

How much to upgrade the breaker? It might be the same as the new lights.

OneDummHikk · 06-17-2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennihanna

How much to upgrade the breaker? It might be the same as the new lights.

If the wiring can handle it, a breaker isn't 10 dollars. Just have to get someone to put it in for you.

Hobbzz · 06-17-2008, 10:38 AM

I doubt the wiring in this place could handle it. And if I could get rid of my roommate I would...but I rent from him! lol So that also means no upgrading the electrical.

I thought about a diy lumenarc style reflector, but found a thread on RC. After reading a few posts into it he started talking about the price of the alminum. It ended up being about the same price as a used reflector, so I'd just rather spend the extra $15-$20 and get a premade one. Then I don't have to worry about screwing it up.

dacro · 06-17-2008, 12:48 PM

Thanks Randy... appreciate the offer!

Loverotties · 06-17-2008, 03:15 PM

Don't put a bigger braker!The wire will molst likely can't take the extra amps and could cause a fire.I's hard to beleave you only have to circuit.One for the kitchen and one for the rest/(dinningroom,bathroom,bedroom,hallway and familyroom.)

Bennihanna · 06-17-2008, 03:17 PM

I meant upgrading the wiring to accomodate a larger breaker, not just slapping a larger breaker in a spot where a smaller one was.