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Old 09-21-2006, 12:36 AM   #16
pledosophy
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Guess what, there's more.

Let's talk about setup.

I would go wit a 1.5" to 2" sand bed. Make sure the sandbed is no deeper then that, unless you are going 5"+ which IMO would take away much of the vertical height needed for the seahorses to be comfortable. Seahorses like to take advantage of vertical swimming room, so IME shallow beds work better. Depths between 2" to 4" are detrimental.

I have always like the Carbi Sea livesand product. It is live so it contains bacteria, and it is a large enough particle size that I have nt experienced seahorses accidentally snicking sand, even when snicking food right off the sand.

For liverock, I would recommend Tonga Branch rock, like the kind in the following link. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...cfm?pCatId=401

If it were me I would go with at least one box of this and another 20lbs of a different liverock, or two boxes of the Tonga Branch.

Tonga rock is god IME because it doubles as biological filtration while creating several places for the seahorses to hitch.

I like to go with aroun 1.5 lbs of LR per gallon of tank to help with biological filtartion.

Normally I fill the tank half way with RODI saltwater, then I would place the rockwork in an aestetically pleasing mannor, then add the sand. I like to put the sand in after the rock so the rock structure will not collapse if the sand is shifted by a sand dwelling creature. After the sand and rock is in order, I fill the tank the rest of the way with water. If you choose to use a sump, I would place rubble rock in the sump for added biological filtration and a place for the pods to breed.

If your using the cannister fluval filter the media I suggest would be the poly pad, phos ban, and chemi pure. I would not use the carbon or biological media that the filter comes with. The carbon can leach phosphates wich lead to algae problems, and is not needed since you will not be housing corals that engage in warfare or any type of toxic animal.

Run the tank setup like this while adding a days feeding (one cube of mysis per seahorse you plan on keeping). When you can add the cubes of mysis, then wait four a=hours, and do an ammonia test and a nitrite test that both read zero you will be able to add your cleanup crew. Do a nitrate test only after the other two test read zero. You will probably have some detectable nitrates, usually in excess of 20ppm but often greater. Do a WC to bring the numbers down. Also do a PH test to make sure your PH is close to 8.3, if the PH is not in the desired range I recommend the Seachem PH buffer which buffers the tank to 8.3. Also check your salinity to ensure that it is still between 1.022 and 1.027. Most tanks have some evaporation and need to be topped off daily wit fresh RO water so the salinity stays constant.

For cleanup crews with seahorses I like a combination of astrea snails, naussarius snail, and scarlet reef hermits. I stay away from most other snails because they are either harvested from cold waters or they eat the macro algaes. If you do not wish to keep any decorative macro algae in your dispaly system, then you could keep turbo snails as well.

If the clean up crew survives (which it should if you do the iniial test right) then you are ready to add fish. Since the tank should be fairly stable at this point I would recommend adding a pair of peppermint shrimp, that are sizable enough so they will not be eaten by the seahorses.

The order in which you add your tankmates is up to you. I prefer to add the tankmates first and the horses last. I like to have at least one sand sifting goby like a twinspot or a yellow watchman. Since you desire a manderin I would definetly wait for some time before adding that fish. You can speed this process up somewhat by adding pod cultures availbale from etailers like ReedMariculture.com, and LFScultures.com, but even with starter cultures ample time should be given so the colonies can establish themselves. IME manderins also readily accept Reed's Artic Pods as a prepared foods, but all manderins are different so I would only suggest trying that food after the pod population is established. Think of the Artic Pods as a backup.

As for lighting I am not sure what you are saying. Can I get a brand name, a wattage, a length of bulb, type of bulb and a K rating.

At the same time you order your seahorses I would order the appropriate meds. IMO you shuld stock Neo3 (an antibiotic developed for seahorses with a dosage designed for seahorses. It is a combination of sulpha's and neomycin), Daimox (used in humans for fluid retention it is the only drug shwon to be effective against Gas Bubble Disease. It is not OTC here in the U.S. so it takes some time to get it on your shelf. If your horse develops GBD and you do ot already have the drug, your kinda screwed).

As far as nutrition I would stick with feeding of mysis shrimp. The brands Hikari and PE are the brands of choice because of there nutritional profile. IMO you should stay away from most other brands.

When you feed the myss thaw the shrimp first in a cup with salt water, then dump the mysis into a net and rinse the mysis off in tap water. RInsing the mysis helps to eleiminate the extra waste you are introducing into your system, helps to avoid future problems. Mysis is the staple food, other foods that are often suggested for seahorses like brine are hard for seahorses to digest and don't give the seahorses the nutrition like mysis will.

For additional temperature control I use a 6" clip on fan I purchased at Bed bath and Beyond. The fan points directly to the surface of the water in the sump. It is able to drop my 65g display with 40g sumps temperature by 5 degrees F. Cheaper then a chiller.

I'm sure I'm forgetting things and kinda being scatter brained, so if there is more questions that this inpires please feel free to ask.

Hope it helps.
Kevin
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Old 09-21-2006, 12:41 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara7814 View Post
lots to read.. i will read it over again tomorrow morning..

what exactly is a refugium.


A refugium is a refuge for sall critters who are normally hunted in our display to reproduce without being eaten. Many refugiums contain various macro algaes with chaetomorpha and green grape caulphera seeming to be the most popular.

Here is a link to the HOB model I referenced

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+113080

Refugiums provide a place for the pod population to boom, and a place to grow macro alages which help remove nitrates, and even toic metals. The macro is easily harvested (just pull out a handful).

The other advantage to a refugium is the ability to light it on an inverse cycle to the tank so you can keep your PH stable so it does not swing with the light cycle.
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:51 AM   #18
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ok thanks.. you have given me a lot to think about. i have changed my mind and if i get 3 tanks..they will all me seperate. now is a 26 gallon to small for seahorses?? i would only have the seahorses and maybe a pair of pipefish in there. i want them to have plenty of room so i dont want to cut them short. and if 26 gallon is big enough...do seahorses need a sump?? i have had different opinions given to me..
some say you dont need a sump unless your large
others say yes you need one
some say it doesnt matter either way

so what do you think for the seahorse tank?
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Old 09-21-2006, 09:10 AM   #19
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so i checked out the HOB refugium. that would work for me?? all i do is hang it on the back of my tank.. if i understood it correctly. and it just grows things that ill need? i guess im still a tad confused! should i have them on all my tanks if i have live stuff in them?

as for the sites i checked out one.. but the darcomarine.com doesnt work...

now about the lights.. i havent a clue what the name is... i will have them tomorrow.. then i can tell you
as for the skimmer..no name on that to. he is just ordering it for me. i gave him a couple different models.. that people recommended on here. i dont remember the names because he kept the pictures i printed out.

also what about the sump.. i think i asked about it in my post before this one..
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Old 09-21-2006, 10:12 AM   #20
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ok so if i needed a sump..what size and would this one work.. i know i could make it bigger if need be..but the set up of it.. would that work??

http://www.tylermerrick.com/index.php?page=sump&cat=22
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Old 09-21-2006, 02:34 PM   #21
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A 26gallon tank would be fine for one pair of seahorses, but a bigger tank will be easier to care for and stay more stable (get it stable, for seahorses ).

IME you do not need a sump, but you want one. A sump offers a place to hang all the equipment so it is not making a mess in the tank, and most importantly it provides a place for the growth of fauna undisturbed. I would not use a skimmer if it was not housed in a sump.

I do not understand the you don't need a sump unless you have a large tank thought process. In smaller tanks additional water volume is pricelss. Also small tanks can easily be overcome with unsitely equipment. JMO.

The link to the sump you gave is cool, I would do min of a 20g. More room for refugium, if your going to do it, do it all the way. Also make sure there is enough room for back syphon. There are always ways to help prevent back syphon like check valve (don't trust these IME, wow that was a mess), drilling syphon holes, higher returns, etc . . ., but if the pump needs to go off then your going to have some back syphon into the tank, there is no avoiding it.

IMO you should not keep seahorses with pipefish, especially since you are at the newbie beginner stage. It was formerly thought that they were ideal tankmates because of the feedig habits of the two species. Since that time we have found that both pipefish and seahorses carry a pathogen that will easily infect each other. Going back through the archives of a disease treatment forum on a seahorse specified website will show that these two different species have a great risk of infecting each other. In the past seahorses were considered expert only, considered to be prone to bacterial infection. Now that we better understand the nature of the bacteria and the ways to prevent it (lower temps, not mixing with other syngnathids), seahorses have a much longer lifespan in our home aquariums.

You can read more about Vibrio and mixing species on other sites, and there are published writings by Dr Martin Belli, Jeff Mitchell of Shedd, Steven Foster, and Amanda Vincent. I am currently working on a research paper on the topic, close to two years into it, unfortunatley cataloging this research in relation to the home aquarium takes time.

Another issue with pipes, is that CB pipes are few and far between. Just sayin.

If you are set on pipefish, perhaps they would do best in on of the other systems you are planning.

IME you can never have too much refugiums. I like to run an HOB and a sump style refugium on my systems. IME systems seem to thrive best when the production of the little unrecognized critters breed like crazy. Many corals have huge benefits from eating the eggs of copepods. I do not remember the issue but there was in article in Coral Magazine featuring a store that ran two softie taks, and one SPS tank, each over 90g, that were fully stocked and thriving. The only additive the store used was calcium, and Miracle Mud in the sump. This store ahd this display going for over a year. Imagine adding nothing, and having the tanks thrive enough to be featured in a magazine. That is my goal and philosophy on reefing. In the wild several millions of particles of food pass over the reef daily. We cannot create this in our home systems but the introduction of as much fauna as possible IME has always led to healthy tanks. JME
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Old 09-21-2006, 04:22 PM   #22
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ok.. thanks about the pipefish..i did read that they were compatible and that they will actually float together..but im not "set" on them. im so confused.. have you read about my future project?? its 50/50. some still say i can be safe others no. the first i heard about this new idea.. and let me know what you think.. that a uv sterilizer will prevent the tranfer of bacteria..etc let me know..thanks
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Old 09-21-2006, 06:43 PM   #23
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I read the links. Is that what you mean by your future project?

A UV will kill the bacteria that passes through it, but it is not a full proof plan. Many people using UV's still hae bacterial infections. Also the bacteria vibrio will mutate after being exposed to a UV for periods over 70 seconds. If you are going to use a UV I would connect the cannister to come before the UV so the water passing through the UV is clean, leaving no piece of detritus for the bacteria to hide on.

The thoughts o mixing species of syngnthids is relativley new. Most of it came from the research brought out by Dr Belli. Formely it was believed that all sysngnathids carried a strain of vibrio, recent research has shown that to be false.

Attmpets to make vaccines have proven succsessful shorterm, but the last vaccine was only effective for 1 year. Belli has developed a new vaccine, but it is still fairly new so no long term results as of yet.

People do mix species. It is just a risk, a high potential for infection IMO. Just something that a newbie should stay away from. JMO.
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Old 09-21-2006, 07:17 PM   #24
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yeah i am just...i just havent a clue what to do. i mean im not going to do this right away as i dont have the money and then i also want to make sure its what i really want. after a couple months i get going with my first tank.. that will be the real tell if i go ahead with the plan.. i am just a planner for the future.. i like to make sure i have all the facts before i go and do it. i appreciate all the help. if and when the times comes i do 3 tanks... ill be sure to get your help if infact thats what i do. but you can continue to keep giving me info if you have the time. i enjoy reading it and then asking questions
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Old 09-21-2006, 07:42 PM   #25
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ok you make a good point. back to all 3 seperate again.. the third tank will be a 26 gallon to. i have it so they will be different heights.. almost kinda like art.. something new and orginal..but again. i want to be safe. so thanks..
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Old 11-07-2006, 06:46 AM   #26
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don't mean to drag out a long abandoned thread .. but i am cerious.. would i be able to get away with using a skilter 200 with a 29 gal aquarium for maybe a pair or 2 seahorses??

i was also thinking about converting a aqua clear overspil filter to a mini refusem ( can't spell today.. lol..) i got to looking at one and since the "filter media" stacks .. pitch the filler and put in the microalgae instead..

if this would work.. then i may even try it.. wouldn't break the bank..
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Old 11-07-2006, 10:33 AM   #27
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Plave the macro in the tank, Keep the filter and 29 gallon will work good for seahorses
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