Marine Ich during nitrogen cycle? is hyposalinity o'kay?

[DarkAsylum]

Hello everyone I am very new to the saltwater side of fish keeping however I am fairly experienced in regards to freshwater fish. I recently purchased a 60 gallon aquarium, and began setting it up for my saltwater experience.

currently my nitrogen cycle is at the part were ammonia is beginning to decline but my nitrites are still testing purple and my nitrates are testing red unfortunately my LFS convinced me that it was ok to cycle with fish, so I purchased two damsels a blue one and a yellow tail as well as my pride and joy maroon clownfish.

unfortunately my maroon clown fish appears to have contracted marine ich and I was wondering if any of you would be able to point me in the correct direction in eliminating this problem.

I was thinking about trying that Hyposalinity treatment thing while to tank cycles but I didnt want to risk killing off the bacteria required to complete my cycle.

Also it's a FO tank aym I understand that this is a reef website but i selected this site as my home because hopefully as I gain more experience I will be purchasing another tank and making that a reef.

Thank you very much in advance for your replies it is greatly appreciated <3.

[jenglish]

The direct answer to your question is hypo will slow but not stop the growth of your bacteria.

The issue here is the stress of the cycle, ammonia poisoning, ich and hyposalinity all togethor with several very territorial fish may lead to disaster

[DarkAsylum]

Originally Posted by jenglish

The direct answer to your question is hypo will slow but not stop the growth of your bacteria.

The issue here is the stress of the cycle, ammonia poisoning, ich and hyposalinity all togethor with several very territorial fish may lead to disaster

Thank you for the prompt response I bought some stuff called ich Attack at my LFS it's suppose to be organic but I dont really think that it will work. If you were in my shoes what would you do just wait it out and work toward the cycle or go with the hypo. also will marine ich totally leave even if I do not have a quaratine tank?

[jenglish]

most people agree ich attack does nothing. How soon after the tnak was setup did you add fish? You may have to do daily water changes to try to keep ammonia down for these fish to survive. Honestly the best thing to do would be remove them and take them to someone to hold them. The fish had ich when you bought them it was jsut the stress of the situation that brought it out. Marine ich will not go away on its own or if it will it takes years (there is some research on this but it is still pretty shakey). I think the ammonia is the most immediate concern rather than the ich, though they can be quite serious togethor. I would be either doing daily w/c to keep ammonia down or returning the fish to be held until your tank is cycled. Even a tank that has gone through the nitrogen cycle should start slowly adding bioload. It is dangerous to rush. beware of LFS advice, some of them are more interested in a sale than your success

[DarkAsylum]

Originally Posted by jenglish

most people agree ich attack does nothing. How soon after the tnak was setup did you add fish? You may have to do daily water changes to try to keep ammonia down for these fish to survive. Honestly the best thing to do would be remove them and take them to someone to hold them. The fish had ich when you bought them it was jsut the stress of the situation that brought it out. Marine ich will not go away on its own or if it will it takes years (there is some research on this but it is still pretty shakey). I think the ammonia is the most immediate concern rather than the ich, though they can be quite serious togethor. I would be either doing daily w/c to keep ammonia down or returning the fish to be held until your tank is cycled. Even a tank that has gone through the nitrogen cycle should start slowly adding bioload. It is dangerous to rush. beware of LFS advice, some of them are more interested in a sale than your success

Thnak you very much for your knowledge is it like once ich is in my tank it's their as long as I havefish I used the water conditioner system that they gave me it says that it detoxifies ammonia making it harmless to the fish but apparently that was a lie.

[DarkAsylum]

Also please allow me to take the time to say that i apologize for asking alot of newbie questions but im just upset with the fact that I have gotten my first disease already.

[jenglish]

Originally Posted by DarkAsylum

Thnak you very much for your knowledge is it like once ich is in my tank it's their as long as I havefish I used the water conditioner system that they gave me it says that it detoxifies ammonia making it harmless to the fish but apparently that was a lie.

I was never sure if the detox stuff made the ammonia safe or just fubared the ammonia tests. Ich will remain in a tank as long as it is untreated and the treatements are all reef unfriendly so they must be done seperately while the tank goes w/o fish for 60 days or so. Ich cannot live without a host and will die in a fishless tank.

Don't worry about asking questions, that is what the forum is for

[DarkAsylum]

Originally Posted by jenglish

I was never sure if the detox stuff made the ammonia safe or just fubared the ammonia tests. Ich will remain in a tank as long as it is untreated and the treatements are all reef unfriendly so they must be done seperately while the tank goes w/o fish for 60 days or so. Ich cannot live without a host and will die in a fishless tank.

Don't worry about asking questions, that is what the forum is for

Ok thank you so basically I have to buy another quarantine tank for my fish when I decide to treat marine ich because it cant be treated with the live stock even if it's a FO tank.

[jenglish]

Originally Posted by DarkAsylum

Ok thank you so basically I have to buy another quarantine tank for my fish when I decide to treat marine ich because it cant be treated with the live stock even if it's a FO tank.

Hypo can be done as long as you remove any inverts. Copper can linger in a tank and rock and is not reccomended unles you are going to have a tank just for copper treatments. But a FO tank you can treat in. Now, the hypo salinity may slow your biofilter from developing, but won't permenantly damage the rock.

[DarkAsylum]

Originally Posted by jenglish

Hypo can be done as long as you remove any inverts. Copper can linger in a tank and rock and is not reccomended unles you are going to have a tank just for copper treatments. But a FO tank you can treat in. Now, the hypo salinity may slow your biofilter from developing, but won't permenantly damage the rock.

Ok I will begin to reduce the salinity over the course of today -sunday what is the optimal salinity like.9? also copper should always be a last resort even in aFO aquarium right?

[jenglish]

I am a fan of hypo and consider it more gentle. it would be improper to call copper the last resort as it has it's proponents and is actually quicker than hypo. It's brief nature does little good if you are running a tank fallow. Chelated copper (cupramine) actually has a wider range of effectiveness w/o overdose. With Hypo you must keep it at 1.009. 1.008 is the internal salinity of fish and it is very difficult for them to expel wastes from their kidneys if salinity hits this range or lower. If you do hypo I highly suggest perusing Mr. Peanut's thread on running hypo. I would be hesitent to use copper in a display if you paln on possibly going reef someday. There are ways to clean copper from a tank but it is by all acounts a pain and not guaranteed. Mr. P's thread gives good guidelines on the timeframe for lowering and raising salinity. I knew them at one time but do not off the top of my head and am a little deep in my cups at the moment.

[DarkAsylum]

Originally Posted by jenglish

I am a fan of hypo and consider it more gentle. it would be improper to call copper the last resort as it has it's proponents and is actually quicker than hypo. It's brief nature does little good if you are running a tank fallow. Chelated copper (cupramine) actually has a wider range of effectiveness w/o overdose. With Hypo you must keep it at 1.009. 1.008 is the internal salinity of fish and it is very difficult for them to expel wastes from their kidneys if salinity hits this range or lower. If you do hypo I highly suggest perusing Mr. Peanut's thread on running hypo. I would be hesitent to use copper in a display if you paln on possibly going reef someday. There are ways to clean copper from a tank but it is by all acounts a pain and not guaranteed. Mr. P's thread gives good guidelines on the timeframe for lowering and raising salinity. I knew them at one time but do not off the top of my head and am a little deep in my cups at the moment.

Ok thank you very much atm I do not see myself making this tank into a reef because it's nly 60 gallons I would want to go like 100g for a reef tank so that I can have big pretty fish. Also one last question I wanted to get a Blue Tang hippo fish but every website that i have research basically say that you need a 80-100+ size aquarium for them does this mean that it's out of the question for my 60g setup?

[jenglish]

most tangs need at least a 4 foot tank because of their burst swimming. They swim long distances in the wild and need room to get exercise. Otherwise they get stressed. I would not recommend putting any tang in less than a 4 footer, though IDK if that tang is one that requires a 6 footer.

[DarkAsylum]

Originally Posted by jenglish

most tangs need at least a 4 foot tank because of their burst swimming. They swim long distances in the wild and need room to get exercise. Otherwise they get stressed. I would not recommend putting any tang in less than a 4 footer, though IDK if that tang is one that requires a 6 footer.

Man you know alot !!!! well that pretty much puts a major downer on my vision for my tank as I dont want to get fish that will be unhappy. I will be basing my FO aquarium around my maroon clown fish off the top of your head can you think of any other pretty fish that are fairly hardy for beginners but still shout HEY this is a saltwater tank?

[DarkAsylum]

The last two days my clown has just been sitting around not swimming like his usual self and he isnt eating he is normally the first one ready to chomp down but now he just looks.

The two damsels are just fine and dandy sssssssssswimming and eating but my poor clown....