Purchasing a new Setup. Need Help

[Gilghamesh]

Hey Guys,

I've been contracted by a family to put a new Fish Only, with Live Rock, system in their home. I have a few shopping list questions I was hoping I could get some help with. I need to know some good places to shop online and what items I should buy off the bat.

Tank - I've been to glasscages.com and they seem pretty good. Any other websites that make aquariums for a decent price? We are looking for something 100+ gallons that is 48x24x31 or in that neighborhood.

Filtration - I will be using a refugium of course but I need on what kind of filter would be good for this setup? website and brand recommendations?

Lighting - same as above. What kind of lights would be best? Halides? High Output?

Protein Skimmer - Necessary off the bat? Website and brand?

Anything I'm missing? Any suggestions would be fantastic. Thanks!

Gil

[fox2589]

glasscages i heard is decent..i have also heard if your looking for good customer service you might as well forget about it..there quite rude most people say...probably not gonna need high output lighting if its going to be fish only(may make it look better but ya)...ive heard of another place called my reefcreations(from what i have heard there decent)...i would def use a skimmer.most people on here would probably recommend an octupus brand.. but a coralife would probably be decent as well..thats really all i have got!-drew

[Jadinop]

Why go custom for such a small tank? You are pretty close to the specs of a few different sizes of standard aquariums. Forget the added expense of going custom and pick a standard sized reef ready tank.

Why put a refuge on a Fish Only tank? You are going to want a standard wet/dry with bioballs to start with. Once the live rock is established the bioballs could come out but in FO it's not a necessity to remove them. The added bacterial filtration that bioballs provide will help with a heavy fish bioload.

Why put halides over a FO tank? T5's or even NO flourescents will work for FO. Power compacts are another option.

Protein skimmer from the start. How much do they have to spend?

Now here comes the tough love suggestion:

Why are you being contracted to do something that you really don't seem experienced in? I think you should be honest with yourself and decide if you are capable of doing this properly or are you just living your dream on someone else's dime? I would suggest you send them to a quality LFS who can supply them with the proper equipment and information.

[jenglish]

I would consider going with a standard 120 (48x24x24) as a common size is going to be much more affordable in most cases than custom.

I would be more concerned with a skimmer than a fuge, but thats JMO. A good skimmer and liverock is all the filter I would worry about to begin with. I would look into MSX and Octopus lines as far as skimmers but it really all depends on your budget. Hey a Bubbleking would be nice, you should get 2 and ship one to Springfield!

For lights I would go with T5HO or even just NO lights. A t5HO setup will make the tank bright and bring out good colors in the fish in even a FO tank. Lighting is of course not nearly as much of a priority as it would be if it was a reef setup. If I was installing for someone w/o a great deal of experience I would stay away from PC due to short bulb life and while their reduced light output won't be a problem, color shift in them can be. Color shift can increase algae.

I would tell your clients to get an account on a good newb friendly forum ( I can recomend one ) to ask the questions that will inevitably come up.

Are you putting in a sump? is this an inwall system?

[Gilghamesh]

Thanks for the posts so far. I'm sure more questions are going to arise as I work on this project. I do want to address one questions asked thus far though.

The reason I am being asked to do this project is for a couple of reasons. I have some, not extensive, experience with tanks but I only own nano's. I don't have the money most do to buy anything larger than a 20g setup. None of my nano's have external equipment of any kind. So I have never once purchased a skimmer, an external filter, a refugium, or lighting. That's why I have questions, not because I am totally new to the hobby but because I am branching into a new area. And don't worry about the tough love, I appreciate it.

The setup is for my grandfather who has always wanted one and I offered to help him set it up, that's all.

I will look into all these suggestions and post links to the equipment I am thinking of using. Thank

[Gilghamesh]

Not an inwall system just a free standing standard setup up against a wall. great comments on lights, as I said I never actually had to buy lights since all the nano's I have purchased (4 and counting) have had them built in.

Standard 120 is perfect for the space being provided.

Now by sump, do you mean the 40g or so tank underneath the tank? If so I do plan to use one yes.

In addition to all this I have contacted a very good LFS in my area and they have a good program for on site maintenance and assisted setup. Again directed to my tough love friend. I am excellent with water chemistry and am more than capable of completing the project, I just needed some advise on equipment I have never had to use before. I hope I'm not wasting my money here. I think it's good to learn new areas of the hobby, let's hope I'm not living out my dream on somebody elses dime and destined to fail miserably

[Gilghamesh]

Ok here is what I've picked out thus far based on all of your suggestions and some by my LFS as well. Let me know what you think.

Tank: 120 gallon glass tank. 48x24x25. Reef Ready with one covered overflow and 2 holes for the overflow. Also comes with 2 bulkheads built in.
see http://glasscages.com/?sAction=OrderForm&sProdID=AQ_120

Sump: 38 gallon standard sump tank. see http://glasscages.com/?sAction=OrderForm&sProdID=AQ_120

Skimmer: Octopus HB 800S Hang on Back
Protein Skimmer with Sicce
Pump by CoralVue* see http://www.aquacave.com/octopus-hb-8...lvue-2346.html

Lighting:
Current USA 48" Sundial
T-5 Fixture 4x54W + LED* See http://www.aquacave.com/current-usa-...-led-2364.html

Heating: Finnex 800W Titanium
Heater with HC810 Digital
Controller See http://www.aquacave.com/finnex-800w-...ller-2345.html

Wet/Dry Filter (undecided if I will use): CR900 Wet/Dry Filter
by CPR Aquatics* see http://www.aquacave.com/cr900-wetdry...tics-1418.html

Auto Top Offs - Where do these draw from to get Fresh R/O water into the tank? Is there a separate reservoir? Let me know your thoughts on top off situations. What about adding a pump and hose to a drain under the floor for easier water changes? Good idea?

Thanks.

Gil

[jenglish]

my only suggestion would be to look at in sump skimmers versus HOB. If you have the sump you might as well use it and as a generality in sumps tend to be more effective than HOB. Look into adding some baffles in the sump to stop microbubbles from getting from the skimmer section back into the DT.

ATOs will typically have a seperate resevoir mounted above the sump if I remember correctly. I'm a HOB nano kind of guy too though

As far as a pump and hosing for w/c, I use a pump to drain my bottom tank and it helps a lot. If you have a drain in the house lower than the sump great. If not make sure you get a pump w/ enough head pressure to get water the length of the piping to a drain. Of course it all depends how much work you want a w/c to be. If its a contract maintenance program it may not matter If there is a possibility your grandfather needing to ever do emergency maintenance you would probably want to eliminate as much bending and lifting as possible.

[OneDummHikk]

Originally Posted by Gilghamesh

Tank: 120 gallon glass tank. 48x24x25. Reef Ready with one covered overflow and 2 holes for the overflow. Also comes with 2 bulkheads built in.
see http://glasscages.com/?sAction=OrderForm&sProdID=AQ_120

I would do 3 holes. Use one for the drain, one for return, the third would be where you could run the wiring for your lights to get them out of site instead of up the outside of the tank. You may have to cut some of your plugs off and reconnect them but it makes for a very clean install.

Originally Posted by Gilghamesh

Sump: 38 gallon standard sump tank. see http://glasscages.com/?sAction=OrderForm&sProdID=AQ_120

Make SURE the sump tank can go in the stand. Not just fit in the bottom of it, but that it will go through the door openings as well. My 120 has dividers in the doors so to get a larger sump in it I either have to cut a new door in the end (which I will), remove the dividers, or do some serious cutting and custom stuff (which I refuse to).

Originally Posted by Gilghamesh

Skimmer: Octopus HB 800S Hang on Back
Protein Skimmer with Sicce
Pump by CoralVue* see http://www.aquacave.com/octopus-hb-8...lvue-2346.html

I would rather have an in sump skimmer rather than a hang on skimmer.

Originally Posted by Gilghamesh

Lighting:
Current USA 48" Sundial
T-5 Fixture 4x54W + LED* See http://www.aquacave.com/current-usa-...-led-2364.html

If this is going to be a FO or FOWLR tank (with no corals), that light setup (while extremely nice) is a waste of money. You can get a "Normal" 4' light fixture from Walmart or Home Depot to light the tank with. It doesn't have to be anything fancy at all. A single 48" dual bulb shop fixture from walmart is 10 dollars and then 2 bulbs for it is all you need for Fish Only.

Originally Posted by Gilghamesh

Wet/Dry Filter (undecided if I will use): CR900 Wet/Dry Filter
by CPR Aquatics* see http://www.aquacave.com/cr900-wetdry...tics-1418.html

I would totally skip the wet/dry and use a sump tank instead. Bioballs in a wet/dry will work just fine in a FO or a FOWLR tank. But, if you are going to have LR in the system anyway, skip the bioballs that you are going to have to remove when the LR goes in, spend the money on fish or something else.

Originally Posted by Gilghamesh

Auto Top Offs - Where do these draw from to get Fresh R/O water into the tank? Is there a separate reservoir? Let me know your thoughts on top off situations. What about adding a pump and hose to a drain under the floor for easier water changes? Good idea?

ATO'es (most) use a reservoir in the sump area that is full of RO/DI water that you have to put in it. Then it simply feeds a float valve that keeps the water level in the sump where it needs to be. It still have to be filled up though. It just keeps you from having to do it every day.

Water changes. Use a wet/dry vacuum cleaner (not a wet/dry fish tank filter). When you do WC'es, turn the return pumps off, let it all stop settling, vacuum the water out of the sump, fill it back up, then turn it all back on. I am not a fan of trying to overly complicate water changes (or anything else). KISS - Keep It Simply Silly

Sand in the bottom? Any potential fish list yet? Good luck with it.

[Jadinop]

I still don't understand why you are ordering custom. Why not go to your LFS and pick up a Reef Ready 120 from Perfecto or All Glass. Glass cages has a spotty reputation for quality and customer service. Why risk it? Don't forget to add up all the options and shipping from Glass cages, the $300 base is just the start.

An 800w heater is overkill. Most recomendations are 3 to 5 watts per gallon depending on room temp. I run my 150 setup on a single 250w heater due to the equipment adding enough heat and I keep the house fairly warm. 300 to 500 watts would be more than enough in all but the coldest houses.

You won't need both a sump and a wet dry. I would go with the wet/dry for now. Most beginners overfeed and overstock. The added biological filtration will help.

I would go with a simple in sump skimmer. Coralife Super Skimmer 220 would work well. Easy to adjust (giant red knob) and comes with detailed instructions. Octopus skimmers generally come with a picture showing what it should look like when you are done assembling it. You can always upgrade down the line as you become more advanced in the hobby.

[Gilghamesh]

It's actually not a custom tank, it's an off the shelf but I actually made a few phone calls and found an identical one about an hour away from our home so good advice there.

I'll downgrade on the heater, we are living in the Salt Lake valley so it gets extremely cold in the winter but I think you're right.

Found the coralife at a LFS today, good price so that should work great.

Thanks so much for all the help so far. I'll get back to you after picking up a few of the items.

Oh thanks for the help on the lighting, our LFS has just the thing.

Gil