Blue Hornets and Fire and Ice Zoas

[Xler8n]

I just won these on ebay from a guy who i hate to buy form but i couldnt resist. I saw blue hornets going for ridiculous prices so i had to jump on these 1) because they are rare and look nice and 2) because there worth alot of $$. I figure i can grow em out and make my money back. Thats wats good about corals. U spend $$$ on the coral and then grow them, frag em, sell em, and get the corals for free and maybe make a lil profit. I also go these fire and ice zoas cuz they look awesome. Tell me what you guys think...

[Xler8n]

Sorry here we go.....

[Loverotties]

Small pics but they look good.

[kyrie_eleison]

***

[ckusnierek]

Yep I got seom too and within 2 weeks all gone.
I paid $20 for 70 polyps. and even sold a few on ebay for $15-$25 per polyps but they all melted away.

extreme coral in selling tons of these for $300 for a 3"x3" rock and from what I an hearing they are dying...

Good luck!

[Fly Guy]

Originally Posted by kyrie_eleison

I truly hope those survive like their "true" morphed-cousin, the Purple Hornets..

I dont mean to pick on you, honest but there is that word "true" again being misused.

Just because it may appear like a purple hornet, doesnt mean that it is true. The word is irritating to me wanna know the truth as it is more often misused than not, and when it isnt misused technically, it is misused for reasons of marketing and upselling. These chop shops pick up similar recently collected wild caught polyps that certainly arent true, may or may not even be the exact same polyp as the originally named. Keep in mind, the originals, as well as the ones you are picking up that have been wild caught since were paid pennies per polyp for.

And while I havent picked up any blue or purple hornets as of yet, I have yet to find a blue coral that couldnt be condintionally morphed to purple, and vice versa.

It is is just a marketing game whenever you get polyps sold for more than a few bucks a piece, ESPECIALLY if they are not guaranteed to be aquacultured corals, and the extent to whcih they can morph one way or the other and their hardiness hasnt already been proven. There are some exceptions to that in concern to polyps that have been aquacultured many generations deep that are simply fragile, and hard to keep which are worth more.

Originally Posted by ckusnierek

Yep I got seom too and within 2 weeks all gone.

Originally Posted by ckusnierek

I paid $20 for 70 polyps. and even sold a few on ebay for $15-$25 per polyps but they all melted away.

extreme coral in selling tons of these for $300 for a 3"x3" rock and from what I an hearing they are dying...

Good luck!

there is a simple reason for this poor mortality rate. People are getting taken advantage of buying recently wild caught corals that are being marketed and upsold for a premium aquacultured price, or being unsuspectingly tricked into following suit and continuing the poor business practice that isnt really a pretty thing for the hobby when you get right down to it. This is called a chop shop. The corals are used to solid paramters in the ocean and have not adapted to being raised in our little relative cesspools. Wild caught corals no matter how they appear are not worth what truly aquacultured corals are. You wait a few months and pay a premium from any of the reputable farmers or hobbyists who actually grow them, and dont just chop them up,, and you will then have a hardy polyp that will not only survive, it will not morph to something that is less than impressive. It still most likely wont be "true" unless of course you can trace it back to the ONE AND ONLY original named colony. If it is aquacultured several generations deep who cares if it is true or not. wys is truly what you get........if not dealing with reputable chop shops who look for these things coming in from the wild, chop them up into tiny frags and rape the general public with high end aquacultured coral pricing, when in fact they are selling freshly caught corals in which they have no real idea what it is or what it will can potentially end up being


wow...that was one long run on snetence



Moral to the story. Just say no to wild corals and stop supporting these chop shop hacks trying to make a quick buck and capitolizing on the name game. If you dont mind paying a premium for quality it is best to support your reputable farmers and get what you pay for

[kyrie_eleison]

Fly guy,

I'm not entirely sure of the infraction but use of the word "true" doesn't have to imply anything. There's no marketing strategy here so it's difficult to relate to your concerns. Nevertheless, no one here is a "true" linguist and sloppy english need only only be taken lightly in this hobby. You can spend thousands on "true" polyps of any species and lose everything in a temperature malfunction in your tank. It's all part in part of the hobby.

[Fly Guy]

Originally Posted by kyrie_eleison

Fly guy,

I'm not entirely sure of the infraction but use of the word "true" doesn't have to imply anything. There's no marketing strategy here so it's difficult to relate to your concerns. Nevertheless, no one here is a "true" linguist and sloppy english need only only be taken lightly in this hobby. You can spend thousands on "true" polyps of any species and lose everything in a temperature malfunction in your tank. It's all part in part of the hobby.

If you are one to use names at all, then using the word "true" as a descriptive term with the name most definitely does imply something, and whether intended or not is a misrepresentation/misadvertisement or both depending on how it is used. I only singled you out as you seem to use the word lots. Your posting of those AoG's in that other thread are a prime example of this. They are clearly not even the same polyp as the originals, much less from the original colony. That doesnt mean that they arent nice, nor that they cant accurately be referred to as AoG's.

I only posted a clarification of the term for anyone else who happens to be reading that wants to not only better understand the name game, but potentially save themselves from getting taken advantage of. The thought leaked over to the wild vs aquacultured thing, awhich is IMO a much more important topic, as well as directly relevant to why many of these expensive polyps die on people. When you understand the why, it all makes sense and in the future you will *hopefully* avoid supporting the chop shop hacks and instead support the true farmers who will give you a better product

I dont mind the name game. I think it is a very useful tool amongst collectors as a single trendy ridiculous name can take the place of a paragraph of real descriptive terms for any particular polyp

regardless, didnt mean to offend, just making conversation

-cheers

[kyrie_eleison]

whatever.

[Fly Guy]

have you ever completely unintentionally pissed someone off when all you were trying to do was clarify misperceptions and make good conversation??

I never have, just checking to see if anyone else had

I am more than a little bit deep into collecting these amazingly variable polyps if you cant tell, and up until I moved to the sticks where my internet connection sucks so I cant deal with pictures was a member of the coralpedia council so I do take the name game seriously. forgive me kylie. I shouldnt have even used your name and I could have said the same thing. Didnt think anything of it at the time but should have

happy reefing

[Xler8n]

Ok.... so back to the topic. I got these blue hornets (about 30 polyps for $46.00) and the fire and ice (about 20-30 polyps for $17.00) If they are so difficult to take care of what is some advice you guys can give me to keep these zoas especially the blue hornets thriving? I have s 75 gallon tank with 2 150watt Phoenix bulbs... Should i keep them low in the tank?? Also i know what he is saying and this is the exact reason i really dislike this guy that i won the frags from. His stores name is MR. CORAL and though many people may like him, me and my friends in my area DO NOT for the exact reason that he runs a "CHOP SHOP". Gets wild corals and chops them up and sells them for ridiculous prices. I had some bad experinces with him but i simply could not resist this time cuz i liked these zoas ALOT. I really dont even collect zoas. I have one colony of radioactive dragon eyes, green bay packers and some other red center with green skirt zoas mixed together on one rock. I mainly have SPS but like i said i really liked the "fire and ice" and "blue hornets" and i couldnt resist.

[Xler8n]

Heres the link so you can see the pics better. For some reason he called them "blue eye dragons" for the particular auction that i won but he has the SAME exact polyps on other auctions calling them "blue hornets". Either way no matter the name i really like them ALOT

Blue Dragons (Blue Hornets):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=270388799728

Fire and Ice:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=270387232652

[Fly Guy]

Thats a fair price on the blue ones, there was another conversation on another forum concerning these polyps earlier today and the prices were insane...as were people talkign about how much money they were going to make if they bought the whole colony and cut it up.........I probably carried that over a little bit.....

anyway

low in the tank to start always with good flow. Keep in mind they are (most likely) recently wild caught, and can be loaded with pests. Spiders being the most common but nudis and sundials as well. Close inspection and dip mandatory, QT ideal. Just try to keep them until they start growing and any babies will be a first generation aquacultured and be much hardier than they were in the first place. Just in case they do start to melt on you for some reason take a new scapel or razor and cut out the death as it comes and keep them in excellent high flow. Note: high flow does not mean high velocity

[kyrie_eleison]

Xler,

I've spoken to some very important people who have dealt with deepwater coral collection and I've learned some interesting facts about the it. It occurred to me that most of our understanding of tropical coral collection is still somewhat limited. Deep water corals in general are a funny thing. It's not ENTIRELY about the light; Quarantining; inspection work or even flow. But believe it or not, temperature and pressure play a huge role. See, deep water coral like the ones featured in this thread are very very sensitive to temperature and pressure. The recommendation of keeping corals under low light is NOT enough. You have actually keep them "shaded" w/ indirect lighting. Corals like this need to be sustained in cooler temperatures. 75F degrees if possible and even that's sort of a push. Who wants to run a chiller that often?

It's tricky trying to maintain corals of this nature when our tropical reef tanks need or must be kept at 78 to 83 F. These are just a few things to consider when you buy deep water corals.

By the way, Flyguy, you should consider a less stressful hobby; you're taking this true reef-stuff way too serious.

[motorslave]

I believe now would be a great time to stop with the jabs an others. People disagree. Leave it at that.