Need some SPS help

[Twitterbait]

Nah, add 1-2 hours per day. they are starved right now so go for a faster startup. they aren't going to burn because your not over the standard light requirement. take some macro shots of your fuzzy ones and then compare polyp extension in a week.

[kevinnq]

I only do 5 hrs of photo period/day with my 2-250W 15K MH, but 12 hrs with 4-54W actinic T5. my corals look great. One interesting thing is that, my Acro that I bought awhile ago and placed until PC and die, but I left it in the tank, after it was under the MH, i now see some came back, still little but i was very happy that it came back! I have a BB tank.

[kevinnq]

I also heard that T5 is better than VHO (more brighter) and also last longer, around 1 yr before you need to replace the bulbs, and it is cheaper too. MH about a year, from what i heard.

[Twitterbait]

sorry whiskey but i have to disagree with the lighting bit. tanks with substrate have much more in the way of dissolved solids than BB. because of that the light penetration is cut as the light has to go deeper. I run a shallow 90 and i run my MH 13 hrs a day and my corals are busting out with full polyp extension and great growth. CC is worse because even with his increased cleaning he is going to have more stuff floating in the water. I am not saying the light is the only problem, but it is a factor IMO.

Skeety, you may even want to turn the CA reactor off until it gets down to 400 then turn it on and play with it until you can keep it in the 400-450 range.

[Twitterbait]

MH replace every year unless your overburning them.
VHO replace every 6-8 months for the white, you can wait 1 year for the actinic if you want.

[skeety]

yeah...I've been dialing back the CA reactor a bit. But notice that my pH tends to drop when I do that (oddly enough). SO doing it EVER so slowly. hehehe

As for the CC substrate...I know all that goes with it, and spend a LOT of time trying to keep it clean. I've even taken quite a bit out, and now it got JUST up to the bottom lip of the tank. (some spots are even thinner and others a little thicker...but with eductors on the CLS, not much I can do about that...hahaha).

While I can see from one side of the tank to the other with almost NO discoloration, I can still see what you're saying. I think instead of you two fighting ( ), I'll just shoot for the middle of your advice. I'll up the timer to another 30 minutes...wait a week, and watch my corals closely. If they retract/bleach at all...I'll cut the time back down. If I see any increase in color/PE/growth...maybe I'll up it again. Repeating until I find the right length.

[ReelFreak]

I can't say whether or not limited lighting is causing STN, but it certainly attributes to "slow growth" from your SPS. I am guessing, but I imagine the percentage of reefers w/ that short of a photoperiod is on the low side. Lengthening your daylight period has got to promote more growth from the corals that are just "surviving" now.

Also you say you vacuum the substrate every water change, thus you are disturbing and releasing at least some of the detrius build up.....I wouldn't think you could get it all siphoned out.

The one sure fire thing you are doing different than 90% of us is the CC bed.....I won't argue about pros or cons, just reiterate that it's one thing different....

Hope it gets better for you soon.

[Twitterbait]

come on whiskey... put your dukes up

give it a shot but you will probably need to do 3-4 hours before you will see a real difference over a few weeks. if your PH is dropping because you shut down the reactor then i would test the ALK again. that does not sound right to me.

[skeety]

okay...so in summary (so far), my thoughts are as follows:

Stop blasting ALL the rocks during my water changes. Maybe blast half a rock every other day, or something...instead?

And increase my photo-period over time, watching the corals during this transition?

That sound right thus far?

[Wiskey]

I don't have much time for anything more than a prediction right now. I will come back to this thread tonight and try to get things together.

I am willing to bet that when you turn the light up things will look a little better initally, then get worse.

You are right to go slow Skeets, the slower the better.

Originally Posted by twitterbait

come on whiskey... put your dukes up

See above comment


Whiskey

[Wiskey]

I have a couple of questions:
What kind of algae do you scrape off of your glass every 5 days?
Can I get a shot of your skimmer skimming, and your skimate?
What pump are you using to feed your skimmer?
What pump are you using as a sump return? How much head?
Why did you start removing your substrate? Did you have the same problems before?

Thanks,
Whiskey

[skeety]

Originally Posted by Wiskey

I have a couple of questions:
What kind of algae do you scrape off of your glass every 5 days?

it's a really light green film that forms. Not really sure what it's called...I'm guessin it's just normal green algae. Maybe some phyto that's populating in my tank? It's not unusual in any way. And every 4 or 5 days, it's enough to make the tank look hazy/dirty. But when I scrape it, I can see that the tank's NOT dirty, it was just the algae. You can still see through it fairly good. Just enough to give the tank the appearance of a green/yellow hue.

Originally Posted by Wiskey

Can I get a shot of your skimmer skimming, and your skimate?

I'll try to get this later. Kind of packed up today, as far as plans. Gotta take Kayla up to Pittsburgh for her Dad's 40th b-day party. So I'll be out of town all weekend.

But know my cup drains to a 5 gallon water cooler jug. And every two weeks, when I do my water change...it's about 2/3rds full. And pretty hard to see through.

Originally Posted by Wiskey

What pump are you using to feed your skimmer?

Using the MR-2, with a PCX-55 pushing into the skimmer.

Originally Posted by Wiskey

What pump are you using as a sump return? How much head?

I'm using a Mag 7. It's pumping THROUGH the chiller, then back up to the tank. I thought this would be too much head for the Mag 7, but when I put my hand in front of the return, there's some good flow coming out. Not sure the head loss of the chiller...but the tube (flex tube...no PVC/elbows/angles/etc) from sump to the chiller is maybe 3', and another 3' from the chiller back up to the tank. Add in the height of the tank (return pipe in the overflow) of ~20", and you're looking at about 7 1/2 feet plus the chiller's head.

Originally Posted by Wiskey

Why did you start removing your substrate?

I started removing my substrate about 8 or 9 months ago. Cause everyone was telling me CC sucks!! So every water change, I'd take out a couple scoops of CC. I did this until it was down to the lip of the tank's bottom frame, and decided I could stop. It's less than an inch thick, and figured while some detrius would fall down into it....that was definitely thin enough to not really have any burried. Simply stirring up the gravel usually blows it all loose.

Originally Posted by Wiskey

Did you have the same problems before?

Thanks,
Whiskey

Pretty much. Let's just say I've had this problem since day one. Again...that problem being lack of growth, and occasionally (average...ever 2 months) loosing a specimen to unknown STN.

Each time, thinking the next upgrade would change things. Thought it was the CC, so started taking some out. Thought it was cause of temp swings, so I got a chiller. Thought it was insufficient skimming, so I got the MR-2. Thought it was insufficient lighting, so I upgraded to MH. Thought it was lack of calcium...so I got a reactor. Thought it was poor magnesium levels, so I started testing/dosing.

Don't get me wrong, each upgrade DOES seem to have yielded great improvement in the tank. Increased coloring, clearer water, faster growth (little more than nothing times 2 is still close to nothing), better parameters, etc.

I don't know...maybe it's "phosphate wicking". One of the few SPS tid-bits I still don't understand. But I don't really have any algae, 'cept for what grows on the glass and one or two really small patches of what looks like a bunch of long green ballons that I could bend/twist into a poodle. But those patches haven't increased in size by any considerable amount since day one...when they were on the LR I added.

So given that I have semi-top-of-the-line equipment, and my parms are all good, and have been for a long time (Ca a LITTLE high, but not damaging, I wouldn't think)...then it must be my husbandry somehow.

I'll detail my water change method in the next post.

[skeety]

Okay...so let me take you step by step through my usual water change routine.

Day or two before, I fill a brute trash can with RO/DI water (up to a pre-marked line), dump in salt (I have a pitcher that I'd marked off with the usual amount for the amount of water I need). I turn on the pump and heater, put the lid on it, and go about my day.

Water change day: I go down, test the ASW. If it's higher than 1.025, I add some more RO/DI water. If it's lower...I add a little more salt. repeat until it's right around 1.025.

I then go to the tank. Unplug the skimmer pump, and clean the skimmer's collection cup, and change the cotton ball. (as I want the most efficient skimming I can get while messin around in the tank).

I then grab my gravel vac, and take the end of the tube, and clip it inside my sump. Then take the vacumn end, and begin shoving it in the gravel.

This takes the gunk out of the gravel, and sends it DIRECTLY to the sump (return pump still running). This way the Skimmer has FIRST dibs at the gunk. Yes...some does flow back up into the display, but most of it goes in the skimmer.

I do this because the amount of water I'd loose by just sucking the dirty water straight into buckets (to be dumped) would be a LOT more than my normal 15-20% I change out. Plus, the corals seem to love it. My trumpets open all the way up, and I see increased PE from most of my SPS's.

Anyways...I do this around the whole tank. punch the vac down into the CC...and watch the brown/gray cloud rise up, and down into the sump. I punch it down at an ANGLE under the LR to get a good bit of gunk from there. Once the whole substrate has been vacumed, I remove the vac, and then I sit down on the floor in front of the sump.

I sit there for about 15 minutes, constantly adjusting the skimmer to get the most gunk out. little more....okay, that chunk of gunk is gone...dial it down a little....good..good...oh wait, another glob...dial it up a bit....got it. Dial it back down...etc For about 10-15 minutes. At which point my skimmer cup looks like this(keep in mind, I'd just cleaned the cup out a maybe a half hour ago):




I then dial it somewhere in the middle, and walk away. Usually eat something, talk to the wifey...etc. I wait about an hour to two.

While the tank is VERY cloudy right after I vacumn...since I got the MR-2, the tank usually clears up in about 20-30 minutes. But I still let it run a little longer.

Next...I take my turkey baster and start blowing on the LR. I'm pretty good now at knowing where the usual spots are for some good gunk, but I generally blow everywhere. I do this for about 5-10 minutes....get a bit more gook out. Then again, I play with the skimmer for a few minutes to maximize the amount of loose gunk I'm pulling out.

Then I again dial it back down to the middle...and walk away. Usually wait another hour or so. Tank's really clear by this point, and my sump has quite a bit of settled out crap in it.

Finally...I come back with the turkey baster...and very gently blow on most of the corals. Try to get any gunk that's stuck on/around them off, and into the water column. Any loose gravel/sand that's landed on them, etc. Again...wait about 20-30 mintues, and the skimmers got it all.

I then shut off the return pump, and any equipment in the sump. Wait about 10-15 minutes for heaters to cool down and what not.

I take a 5 gallon bucket half full of RO/DI water, and set it next to the stand. Remove all equipment (heaters/probes/pumps/etc) and set them in the RO/DI water.

I remove my skimmer cup, take it to the sink. And grab my shop-vac. I then suck ALL the water out of the sump...and all the gunk too. Once it's all gone, I then dump about 2 or 3 gallons of RO/DI water back into the sump, and take a paper-towel and wash out the sump as best I can. Then shop-vac that RO/DI water out.

I then fill the sump back up with my mixed SW. Then using a paper towel, I clean off each piece of equip sitting in the RO/DI water as best I can. Shake them to minimize the amount of RO water going into the sump, and return the equipment to it's place. Once all the equip's back in teh sump, I plug the heaters back in. While I'm waiting for the temp to get right, I go clean my skimmer cup that's in the sink.

have a cigarette....put the skimmer cup back on, turn on the CA reactor, and plug in the return pump!

VIOLA....water change done.

I then clean up.

That's how I do my water changes...every time. Some exceptions involve cleaning of pumps. Which I used to have to do frequently when I was dosing Kalk..but since I got the CA reactor, I don't have to clean them but once every 3 or 4 months. But other than that....same routine each time. And religiously, every 2 weeks. Sometimes I do it on a Sat, sometimes on a SUn, so at most...there might be a 2 week and 1 DAY wait...but then the next one is one day shy of two weeks...etc.

Is there ANYTHING in there that might lend to my problem?

[Twitterbait]

Geeze man! you make me look really lazy!

[Wiskey]

Originally Posted by Skeety

Is there ANYTHING in there that might lend to my problem?

Yes, give me a moment.

Whiskey