Not to be taken "Lightly"

[Ryan Mackey]

We have used many different lighting systems over the years and seem to use a new type with every "next tank" we set up. We used "NO"(normal output or no output) fluorescent bulbs in the 80's with little success, switched to VHO and PC fluorescents in the early 90's with better success.Then came the fateful day when, in about 95' or so, I set up my first MH bulbs. WOW!!! That bright 10K light not only made the corals stand up to attention, but made the once hated algae a part of my filter system.
We have continued to see new trends in MH lighting and are using many different types in the store as we speak. Now, we are moving on to "the next tank" again, a 240 gallon display tank at the store, and have opened the lighting debate once again. Our plan is to put a really stupid 2400watts of 10k and 20k MH bulbs over the thing with 4 additional VHO actinics. Our thinking is that this combination of 10k and 20k might offer the best of both worlds(growth vs color) and an insane level of illumination.
This being said, we are interested in hearing from as many other reefers out there about the lighting they are using, likes and dislikes, what they will use in the future, and any anecdotal evidence they might have to offer us before we begin "the next tank". By the way, we thought we might try the XM bulbs this time. What do you think? Ryan

[NeilsReef]

I have used VHO's almost exclusively, and I have found them to do well with all my soft coral needs. I have used power compacts on occasion, they did a good job as well, but I preferred the VHO's over the PC's. I am in the process of what I call graduating, no not from school, but I am attempting to go to what I consider the next level in the hobby (SPS corals). I have always enjoyed the look of the "sticks", so I am in the process of setting up an SPS tank/ with very limited amount of soft corals. My plan is to use metal halide lighting supplemented by a few VHO's. I am undecided what types of bulbs I am ultimately going to use, I am hoping for a balance between not too white and not too blue. I will closely watch the forums in order to find out other peoples likes and dislikes. Ryan I will post my findings when I get to that point, Thanks Neil

[Ranran]

Over my 190 I use two 400 hqi 20k. One on each end. I have a large clear center brace so I have a standard ballast 250 se 14k over it. I also run two 160 watt vho. One attinic and one 50/50.
Randy

[chewie]

On my 120g (4'x2'x2')I'm currently running 2 400w PFO 13k's of a HQI ballast, supplemented by 4 110w Actinics. I love the look, IMO it is a perfect balance.

I have previously run 20k Radiums, which were too dim and too blue(even off of the HQI ballast).

I have also run the Ushio 10k's off the same ballast, and I LOVED the intensity, but couldn't stand the yellow.

I think PFO's 13k is a good bulb so far, as I've only been running them for about 3-4 months. It is not as intense or yellow like the 10k, and not as dim or blue as the 20k.

[reefcam]

As soon as I get some time, I'm swapping out my VHO for T5. I'm currently running 4 x 400W (2 x 10000K and 2 x 13000K) and 6 x 160W VHO over my tank. I'm going to switch the 6 VHO to 5 T5 5' bulbs and see if that makes a different.

[powdertoastman]

on our 150 we run 2 400w MH 10k's, and 1 175w MH 10k, with 2 48" NO actinics.

on our 30g we run duel 36" PCs, 1 10k, 1 20k.

right now we are doing tests with both tanks to see if you really need MH on smaller tanks or not. we have RBTA in both tanks, it split about a week or so after we got it from waves, so we moved one to our 30g for our baby GSM. they both have hosts now and get feed the samething on the same days, only one is under MH and one isnt. so far after about a week or so, the one in the 30g is doing much better, always in the same spot, always "puffed up" at the tips, and full of color. the one in the 150 is also doing well, but doesnt not like to stay in one spot, and doesnt inflate the tips like the other one does. so we shall see how it turns out.

nathan

[SaltBlock]

I have a single 250 watt 10000K SE XM MH + 2 55 watt actinic 03 PCs over my 30 gallon (IceCap 250 and a workhorse 5 ballast). The only thing I would change....I would like just a little more actinic supplementation, probably by going with a couple T5s instead of the PCs. The hood is 13" tall and the PCs just don't cut it.

Since you will have several MHs, I think some mixture of the 10000K and 20000K would look great (maybe 2 to 1 in favor of the 10000K).

Are you planning on hanging these lights or are they going in a hood? Keep us posted.

AEB

[DonJasper]

I get lost with all the techno-babble.

Sea level, clear, midday is about 10,000 lumens. Since the intensity falls off with the square of the distance - the readings taken at an altitude of six feet is essentially the same - the sun being (what? 93 million miles away). Since aquarium lights will be located above the tank at a distance somewhat less than a mile - the difference of the light intensity between the top/bottom will be measurable.

In general: the higher the lights are mounted - the less dramatic the difference between top/bottom of the tank. I ran the calcs once. How about an SPS frag one foot from my PC lights? There was a 1/8" band of what I would consider "high" intensity. The bottom of the frag was . . . something less.
The deeper you go in the ocean - the bluer the light. So shallow water things (like clams) will like a whiter light than deep water (aka low light things).

The remainder of the equation is counting on the adaptability of living animals to "make the best of it." Leaving us humans deciding if the results are 'good' and 'bad'. After all - it's not the hair algae's fault that I manage to achieve the perfect place for hair algae to raise a family, while at the same time making it difficult for some red coral to do the same.

[DonJasper]

nt

[michael7979]

Right now I have 4-110 watt VHO lights over a 100 gallon. Looking into going to MH's, but right now they work good for my "softies". ( hoping MH's will really increase growth and then trying SPS's, Thinking either 2 or 3 400watters with VHO actinics)

[funstarfish]

running all halides... 150watt de 20k middle samiched by 2 250watt de 14k hamiltons. looks good to me, no hood on tank, no actinics to deal with. i like it lots and it would appear corals do as well.

[Gaidin]

On my 135 6' tank i have 2 x 400w MH SE with 20k XM Bulbs very intense and nice blue white color, 150w DE HQI MH in the middle with 10k bulb (no brand on this), and 3 T5 strips two actinic and one white (10k). I happen to really like the Xm bulbs personally, they dont seem to be as dim as the radiums, they seem to put out alot of light and the color is a nice mix of blue and white, very pleasing to me.*

[Ryan Mackey]

If everyone that has voted could please give a short run-down of their lighting systems, I'll try to pull together some conclusions and move to the next step. Ryan@advancedreef.com

[Ryan Mackey]

Well, since this thread has stopped getting replies, let's see if we can make any sense of the numbers. I am at fault for not placing better rules for the answers, so some voters may have responded in duplicate. For example: since our show tank has 20k radium mh and 160w vho, I might have given the reply for 20k mh, vho, and mh plus fluorescents. With this, and other factors, increasing error in this survey, we can still pull out some answers.
1. About 60% of the voters (28 of 46) reported MH use. This is not a surprise because the more you advance in this hobby, the more likely you are to need stronger lighting. Only 57% (16 of 28) report using fluorescents with their MH, although I suspect this number is really much higher. With the higher kelvin rated MH bulbs producing greater levels of actinic blue radiation, it is possible to have a healthy tank without additional fluorescent actinic blue but, can you ever have too much?
2. For those using MH bulbs, there is an interesting break-down among the different types. We would expect to see the majority usint the long time, industry standard, 10k (probably ushio) bulb. Nearly 40% (11 of 28) reply to the use of 10K. 2 replies below 10k reflect the trend towards higher K values, as does the 6 votes for 13k and 3 for 14k. I would guess that our use of PFO products in this area has stimulated the use of the 13k bulb over 14k (probably hamilton) bulb, but well over half of us are using MH with K value of 13000 or greater. The 20k shows a strong following ( and is my personal favorite) even though the radium requires an HQI type ballast and the XM 20k is severely blue.
3. In the fluorescent catagory, VHO edged out PC's (18 to 15) with the new t5 a slim 3 replies. VHO does not enjoy the same low cost support as does the PC, but is a favorite even as a retro-fit. There was one reply to mixed fluorescent types. I have wondered why companies don't use PC daylight and VHO actinic in their pre-manufactured fixtures? (best of both worlds)

Conclusion:
So what have we learned? Well, I figure these numbers are of little surprise to most of you. We have 3 125g reef tanks at the store, each with different lighting configurations over them. I like the 20K radiums with 160w VHO actinic and actinic day for clear brightness and color. The second tank with 13K mh and 2 160W VHO actinic looks good, has good growth, but seems to have a "haze", lacking some clarity next to the 20K's. The 10K ushios with 160w VHO actinics grow montipora like mad but look very "yellow" next to the others.
The numbers seem to reflect a trend towards higher K lighting which I can relate to. I encourage you all to examine these numbers and conclusions, and offer any insights you may have. What do you think? Ryan@advancedreef.com

[Krux]

my current tank is running off of 2 t5 bulbs, an actinic and a 10k bulb. also in the hood is a fixture and 13k pfo bubl, but due to a ballast issue it has not been running. this suits my immediate needs as my main interest lies in zoos, but the setup was designed with the ability to get another tort going in here right on top of the rocks directly below the halide. additionally there are a couple of very interesting stags that i am looking at picking up when frags become available.

my old 29 ran a 175 watt halide with a 10k bulb and 2 vho actinics. i liked this setup, the color was nice, but the vho actinics really didnt put out much light, when i ran only them the tank was rather dim, which made photography without a flash difficult, thus the change to the t5s. while it is by no means a blinding blue, and admittedly i dont have the old tank side by side to compare, in my estimation the single t5 "seems" to illuminate the tank more than the dual vho's did, at least from a photography standpoint. i still monkey with the white ballance, but the brightness control no longer needs to be adjusted.

my 115 that now runs happily at rogers house ran 2 10k 250 watt hqi ushios and 2 4' vho actinics. these i purchased from rick when soutas redid their tanks, i figured if it grew his frags it would grow mine. i had phenomental color and growth out of all of my zoos and most of my sps (some were deeper in the tank that they liked). personally i would have liked a bit more blue, which i could have done either by adding more actinic, or upping the kelvin rating on the halides. this was really only aparent when i added about 150 lbs or orange rock, they really didnt look as good as the stuff that was either whitish or purple from coraline. i probably would have yanked the 2 vhos in favor of 4 5' t5s had i had the time and money before the great crash of '04.

the new tank that i am setting up now, and will be completed by the end of august hopefully (bigger apartment and nicer tank=better xmas party!) is taking what i have learned from the last 3 systems. i am planning on running 2 13k 250 watt pfo bulbs on a pair of icecap electronic ballasts. the output will be a bit lower from those ballasts, but the heat which has always been a problem fof me (nowhere to vent a chiller to the outside) will be lessened. for supplementational actinic, i am starting out with 2 24" t5 actinics (already got the ballast and endcaps) and depending on the color i will be adding either 2 more, or one more and a 10k for halides off viewing, until i see it running i wont be able to decide.

halides seem to be generally the way to go for sps corals, unless you are like jim and put on a silly number of t5 bulbs (what is it 16 over your prop tanks?) or if you have a non traditional depth tank, that is a shllow one, and t5,pc, or vho's can penetrate far enough. i wish i had the space and funds to do all kinds of cool par and lux testing with ballasts and bulbs and different technologies, but alas i am poor and can only go with what i read from other peoples tests and my own trial and error.

i am a stalwart defender of the t5 now however, and will not be returning to vho now that i have seen the growth and colors in my own home. the startup price is a bit more as you have to go outside portland to find the bulbs in most cases, but my bulb life and color output have thus far demonstrated that it is worth while.

hopefully that helped someone, while i dont have experience with your specific size and shape tank, thats what i have noticed on mine.