Need some electrical advise!

Kevin1000 · 03-24-2005, 05:08 PM

Woke up this AM to discover my tank sitting without power and PH sitting at 6.5 .. (not even sure the pinpoint accurately reads that low) probably would have had a heart attack except I hadn't had my coffee yet and I don't think my heart actually starts working until I have my coffee.

Closer inspection revealed that my GFI had tripped during the night ... not sure why ... reset the GFI ... everything started back up ... and I started to focus on how to get the PH up without killing everything in the tank.

During the course of tinkering with the tank to get the PH safely back up the GFI tripped again ... not knowing which device was giving me the problem I used some common sense and disconnected some of the older powerheads assuming that the newer stuff was more reliable .... an hr later the GFI tripped again. Reconnected the old stuff and notice my newer Seio wasn't working .. removed the Seio .. took it apart - noted nothing unusual and placed it in an old QT and it works fine ... assumed that original problem was Seio related but after removing the Seio the GFI triped again.

Tanks been running Ok with everything hooked up except the Seio (which I am pretty sure is not the problem) for a 4+ hrs.

Not sure what to do ... right now I am of the mind to replace the GFI. Seems to me that if an electrical device in the water was the problem that it would be a consistent problem -- this does not appear to be the case.

Any of your electrical gurus have some incite I would appreciate some help!

PS ... slowly raised the Ph back to a minimal acceptible level ... so far so good ... corals don't look happy but their alive ... no livestock losses so far. Glad I woke up early .. kids home for spring break and I got up early to see if the cars were Ok and how much of my beer they left me

Illusion · 03-24-2005, 05:35 PM

Ok first off For the pH did you have a Ca reactor? Is there a Silonoid hooked up to the bottle to make sure in power outages it shuts off completely?

As for the Electrical... I would try running off a different plug for most everything.. Let it run for while and see if it trips... If it doesnt plug something else into it... and so on.. Elimination... GFIs IMO and Experience are very touchy... Most all my stuff is not on a GFI as they kick in for no reason... Reset them and they are fine.. you have a tiny power surge and they kick... But i would try elimination on every item before replacing the outlet... No reason to replace an outlet if its a heater or power surge doing it to ya..

James

Ryan Mackey · 03-24-2005, 05:36 PM

We have 8 circuits in the fish room with GFCI at the head of each run of 18-24 plugs. They all run fine until you plug into the socket with the actual GCFI in it and that trips the circuit every time. Thats us. R2

Kevin1000 · 03-24-2005, 05:49 PM

Thanks for the responses.

James.

No solanoid to be concerned with.

Been running in-wall GFI's forever and have not had a problem. Not being an electrician I did basically what you recommended ... doesn't seem to have a pattern which makes it a PIA.. Sure be nice if I can figure this out before I go to bed tonight.

Ryan.

Not sure I undertand your setup ... kinda sounds like your running intermediary GFI's connected to a primary GFI? .. in my setup I have all my devices hooked to a number of powerstrips which end up connecting to a single in-wall GFI ... haven't made any elecrical changes except replacing light bulbs and am confused as too why I now have a problem.

Whale4 · 03-24-2005, 06:14 PM

most gfci look at amps try isolating high amp items like lights or heaters

michael7979 · 03-24-2005, 06:52 PM

Are you pulling to much from the one socket and after it gets "hot" from running all day it trips? Might be worth looking into.

Kevin1000 · 03-24-2005, 07:03 PM

Michael ...

Thats what I have been toying with but to be frank I am uncertain how to equate watts/amps and GFI capacity. I am running a 20 amp GFI connected to std house wiring (assume 15 amp? beat the cr*p out of me). Running a dual 65 watt pc, couple of home made 30 something t-8 actinics, 620 Seio ph, a 300 gph canister, and a few older 3-4 hundred gph powerheads off of one outlet. Not sure what all this add up to or why it is the problem ... maybe I have been at the threshold and as the devices have aged I reached the limit?

michael7979 · 03-24-2005, 07:06 PM

I had this problem earlier and it was because the outlet wasn't dedicated to the tank soley. I tripped the breaker a couple of times (usually at night) not only was it running the tank but the TV, lamps, and so on. This might be your problem

Kevin1000 · 03-24-2005, 07:18 PM

Michael

I understand how overpowering a circuit can trip the breaker at the main electrical box .. I always thought that the sole purpose of a GFI was to trip in the event of a change in electricity at that box level (lousy description) -- given the inconsistency with the problem I am confused ... perhaps I am running max on the circuit and when the heater kicks in it puts it over the limit? Beat me!

Kevin1000 · 03-24-2005, 08:11 PM

Update:

Looks like Seio was the problem ... crapped out again. Must have determined it was Ok before I had my coffee. Good news .. the Seio tech says they will prompty process ... bad news .. don't know the shipping cost or whether Seio's have an ongoing problem.

Thanks for the help.

Illusion · 03-24-2005, 08:21 PM

I have not heard of any issues directly with the Seios... I have known people to run for quite some time without issues... Probably just a bad unit... however I would make sure you clean it often...

As for GFIs IME they are junk... Kick in when you dont want them and kick in when you want them... I know some of the larger tanks wont even use them do to reliability... When I do my next place I will just have outlets away from water contact and not use them as I have had bad Experiences with them..

As for the Silonoid It wasnt a concern more of a question as to why the pH dropped so low... Only way I see that happening if the Co2 kept draining into a non running tank which will drop the pH real fast... A solonoid if the power went out would close up and stop any further Co2 from passing safeguarding that issue from happening..

James

liquidfunk · 03-24-2005, 09:07 PM

if there was no water flow,, how would that CO2 make it into the tank? Unless it was enough to completely drain the reactor of all water, and started bubbling out the area of the affluent, but most people dont submerge that so they can watch the bubbles, thus it wouldnt be pushed into the water.

I run a solenoid, but dont see the point. Reducing the PH just in the reactor isnt going to adversely effect the over tank PH.

Although,, when I get my Aquacontroller, the solenoid will be used to reduce fluctuations at night etc.

Illusion · 03-24-2005, 09:14 PM

Joel.. With the Solenoid on the tank when your power goes off it "shuts Off" the co2 going anywhere past the tank.. Without the solenoid on the tank itself the co2 will continue to go into the reactor and back into the tank... Most reactors are gravity/siphon fed And if not then the Excess Gas has to go somewhere... Its kinda just a safety percaution... I keep my Solenoid plugged into the same circuit as my Return pump that way if any power is lost the Co2 will not continue to dump into the Air or into the water... I have never used a controller to controll the pH coming out of the reactor itself...

James

Krux · 03-25-2005, 12:40 AM

even if the drip line isnt submerged, pumping co2 into the stand and saturating the air in there will drop ph... same reason you want to keep a window cracked in the winter.

check your heater... gfi popping at night and then intermitently sounds like a heater fault to me, as each time it goes on to correct water temp it will trip the circuit.

reefcam · 03-25-2005, 02:19 AM

Kevin1000,

sounds like on of your PH may have a small short which the pump will run, but I don't recommend just using a non-GFCI circuit. Isolate the problem. GFCI can go bad, so you might want to test it too. You can get a GFCI tester from Home Depot. The tester is basically causing a short circuit to see if the outlet pops.

The recommended continuous load for any outlet is 80% of capacity. So figure 16A load on a 20A circuit. Did you install the GFCI yourself? It would be strange to see a 20A GFCI on a 15A line. No electrician in their right mind would do it. It doesn't do anything to the line, but it's more of an assumption from the user that they are working on a 20A line when they are no. Overloading a circuit for a long period of time can cause the wire insulation to melt. First hand experience here.

Had a GFCI outlet melt on me. Luckily it didn't catch on fire.

So, I would unplug all your PH and plug on in at a time. I had a RIO pump that went bad after 10 uses. Since it was cheap, I didn't care. The power head would keep tripping my GFCI. I call it trash. Not worth being electricute.

HTH

Rothie · 03-25-2005, 04:02 PM

There was a thread recently about Seios not restarting after a power outage.So, the Seio may be not be associated with the GFI tripping.

Kevin1000 · 03-25-2005, 04:18 PM

Thanks for that info ... first question the guy at Taam asked was whether this device was hooked up to a wavemaker ... apparently they don't do well with alot of on/off situations.

Illusion · 03-25-2005, 07:31 PM

Nope.. They sure dont.. They have been working on a Controller for their Seios but need to get past the on/Off issue LOL... Seios are good strong pumps though... Taam donated a few that were given away at the previous meeting at Nikkis place..

James