Stabilization of an old tank

[Viv]

I was very interested in what Flyguy and Spanky were discussing - mostly about how phosphate can travel from the rock up to the coral, wicking, I think was mentioned. I'm kinda interested in this because I have noticed the same thing happening in my tank to one or two corals, but not in others. I did cook my rock ahead of going BB, and I took out my board because I had noticed an accumulation of detrius under it, in the beginning. I have very conscientously stayed on top to the "cleaning/husbandry" practices in this new BB tank, and yet broke out in Bryopsis, which I never had until I went BB. My rock was a very pale green and my thinking was that although it had been "cooked" there was probably much algae/phosphates deep in the rock that was coming out even after cooking. The Bryopsis was something I really couldn't get on top of so as a last resort to using this rock (before ditching) I boiled it in a giant pot. Yup, boiling water. I then placed the rock into the tank with 3 bottles of Cycle, hoping to "reseed" the now sterile rock. It is now free of the Bryopsis, and the dead stuff has finally let go down to its root system, so maybe all is not lost. I'm kinda wondering about organic phosphates and this wicking of phosphates from rock to the corals. I believe it was the organic phosphates that we cannot test for so must have, but how do you know how much you have and how to control it. And, how do you know or how do you tell when you are wicking from the rock to the coral-is it something you kinda figure by default? My tank is large and I find it takes an extremely long time to stabilize as compared to what I hear others experience. Maybe its my practices, although, it appears I'm doing like other, just not having the success or maybe I'm looking for too much perfection from the tank. Like now, after 3 weeks from boiling, I am getting diatoms-ok, but 3 weeks later? Why is it taking my tank sooo long. Ideas to any of this, I'd like to stick with BB, as my tank has never been clearer, and all my water chemistry is finally where it should be, and yes, I still am getting diatoms and tiny tufts of bryopsis in the edges of the silicone at the corners of the tank. I can't really figure what is going on with this tank. Ramble, ramble , but please, talk to me about this tank.

[Spanky]

You know, all this depends on the rock you have too. Really porous rock - big holes and void spaces - will cycle faster, but because of the big spaces will fill up faster and it's harder for bacteria to migrate stuff back out.
Really solid rock, will clean up a lot slower but also fill up a lot slower and it's easier for bacteria to migrate stuff out of it. But also, it won't process as much as fast.

There are so many variables, that about the only thing you can do is just work with what you have. Make your tank and your equipment work for you.

[Viv]

Ok, I'll buy that. What I'm finding with the BB method is that no longer are the tests doing anything for me. They test normal and I see changes in my tank before tests show anything-so I am going on more of what I see than what tests out, if that makes any sense. I'm not sure if this is an appropriate way of doing things but I don't know of a way to approach things any other way than by observation. By the time a test shows something is off its way too late and my eyes or observation skills are very new....I guess I'll just keep plugging along...but I feel like a fish out of water, the test kits are worthless, and I hate losing corals because I didn't recognize a problem until the test kit picks something up....I remember with my yellow tang he would hid in a corner if something was up with the water chemistry...are there thing corals do which also let you know when things are wrong ( I mean beside polyp expansion). I'm sure there must be a book or some paper somewhere which lets you know stuff like light coral skin means......, excessive growth means.........., no polyp extension after this amout of time means........., etc... or is this something you learn about your own tank over time. I guess I want success fast and it won't do it, I want something that says if I do this, then that will happen, and its not...I want to introduce my tank to new corals but I don't think its ready and the tests say ok, but something looks off to me and I can't put my finger on it, so I bought more fish...blab,blab, blab, blab, blab, ......sorry....

[Mike O'Brien]

IMO it's just the nature of live rock. The way it's formed it just naturally is full of phosphate. The bacteria keep working at it and may be able to keep liberating it for their use, but I don't see it all coming out of the rock.

I think one of the problem's with this occurance with the coral's is that while this is going on none of the coral's are growing, so none of them are using nutrient's like phosphate. Most people are not growing any algae for export at this time as well. I know from the algae living in my tank that there is plenty of phosphate, though i still can't measure it. But I can watch my coral's growing by the day.

[Weatherman]

Viv,

Don’t feel bad. I’ve been at this reef thing for nearly four years, and I still have very little intuitive sense as to what works and what doesn’t, beyond the basics. If I tried to run my tanks like Spanky, I’d probably be a complete failure.

Reading through all the hobby “literature” doesn’t help much. Sometimes I think I subject my critters to too much light, other times I think the light I provide is woefully inadequate. Sometime I think I feed too much. Other times I think I feed too little. Sand bed? Or no sand bed. Big, beckett skimmer? Or little needle-wheel skimmer. Calcium reactor? Or kalkwasser. Carbon? Or no carbon. UV? Or no UV. Natural seawater? Or Instant Ocean, Tropic Marin, or whatever the “salt of the day” is. (Some of the recent, ridiculous “salt studies” do not help!)

When you change something in a bare bottom tank, a positive response (if there is to be one) seems to come much faster than in a tank with a sand bed. But, “faster” is still pretty slow. Weeks to months is typical. I think there is a bit of a placebo effect going on when people put sand back in their tanks (after having problems with a BB tank) and immediately see improvement in the health of their animals. Biological processes don’t tend to go that fast.

So the hobby requires a lot of patience, a fair amount of luck, and a good dose of intuition to be successful.

How some people can take home a couple dozen acro frags from a frag swap and, a year later have to trim their coral back because the coral have grown into a multicolor forest, is a complete mystery to me. All of my coral, assuming they stay healthy, simply turn various shades of yellow and brown.

I’m still happy with the success I’ve had. But, I still don’t have whatever it takes to to grow a multicolored acro forest.

[gwaco]

i think jack pretty much wrote what 99% of us go thru ! i to look with amazement at some of the colors people get out of their corals as i also seem to lean to the browns , yellows , and greens ! mind you i am very happy with what i have , but man some of those tanks just kill me ! i keep waiting for someone to just say they are all photoshopped ! i also believe everyone is impatient and think things should happen over night !

[Weatherman]

Unfortunately for my ego, I’ve seen tanks in person where the coral are deep colors of purple, green and red.

I ask them how they do it, and the response is always get is something like…

“Oh, I don’t know. I just have a shallow sand bed, no skimmer and use Miracle Mud and caulerpa in my fuge. I do have a calcium reactor, but I haven’t looked at it in months. It just runs. I never check alk, cause whenever I do, it’s always rock solid around 12 dKH. I can’t remember the last time I did a water change.”

[gwaco]

Originally Posted by Weatherman

Unfortunately for my ego, I’ve seen tanks in person where the coral are deep colors of purple, green and red.

I ask them how they do it, and the response is always get is something like…

“Oh, I don’t know. I just have a shallow sand bed, no skimmer and use Miracle Mud and caulerpa in my fuge. I do have a calcium reactor, but I haven’t looked at it in months. It just runs. I never check alk, cause whenever I do, it’s always rock solid around 12 dKH. I can’t remember the last time I did a water change.”

makes ya sick doesn't it !

[Viv]

This is exactly what is going on for me!!! I find the test kits are not worth it, cause when something finally does register its too late. I think I am growing because I am learning to "read" my tank. There are times that I can tell that my alk is off by how my open brain looks, or if I have too much phosphate circulating because one of my acros turns a little browner than the nice purple when the water is cleaner. But all this tweaking is more visual and feeling than any tests are showing...and I feel I'm just sooo young in this visual/feeling way of seeing my tank that sometimes things fail because I'm not picking up changes fast enough. Just the same, I do think this is better, at least for me, 'cause I am seeing more than just the "pretty corals and fish", and am picking up some things by look alone. I think I'm probably looking for a quick fix and it's taking time. I know if I strictly went by all dials and monitors etc. I'd probably be there a lot faster, but I really want to "learn" my corals and fish, how they change according to the environment they are living within (if that makes sense). I feel that if I truly understand my tank this way, that I will have a greater understanding than just tweaking a test result. Does any of this make sense, 'cause I think I've grown into this thinking-but maybe I'm way off also, just not sure of where I'm at,lol.

[Mike O'Brien]

I know if I strictly went by all dials and monitors etc. I'd probably be there a lot faster

That may not be the case. Simpler is better sometimes.

[Weatherman]

Originally Posted by Viv

I feel that if I truly understand my tank this way, that I will have a greater understanding than just tweaking a test result. Does any of this make sense, 'cause I think I've grown into this thinking-but maybe I'm way off also, just not sure of where I'm at,lol.

Grasshopper,

To achieve reefkeeping greatness, you must become one with the coral...

[Viv]

Great! Sometimes its hard to tell when my thinking needs to be pulled back in line....

[Twitterbait]

Well... 10+ years and $35,000 later i am finally learning the reefkeepers law of simplicity...