Genx PCX 55 + bullet 2?

[Graham]

Yes, I run the old reefmania 250 with a Beckett injector. FWIW, my pump is rated at 130W, though that doesn't mean that's what it actually draws (it's prolly more).

Back when this debate used to get heated , we contemplated doing a side-by-side, but no one had that extra skimmer to part with. I thought that having an intake for each skimmer placed equidistant from the overflow line would allow the best comparison. The skimmate would then be dried and weighed after a given amount of time.

If the 2 types are indeed better at removing different "stages" of nutrients than the other, then running both concurrently might give the best results known to mortal man. Don't get me wrong, I've seen what recircs can do and it's way impressive.....but obviously not mandatory for a nice healthy tank.

[redwinger]

Never claimed that power savings was a big issue.

Many people with becketts are proud of there crystal clear water, well so am I.


Your right I can't process 5 million gallons per hour but the idea is to do it right the first time.

All recirc needlewheels are different. Just like needlewheels in general are different. For example a coralife needlewheel skimmer is not nearly as efficient as a euro-reef and a turbofloater is no where near as efficient as a Deltec. Alot has to due with the pumps and such. Try running your skimmer with a mag18 and watch the performance go in the toliet. I am trying to find a comparable beckett to do some test with as I stated before. But I must then ask you to do the same thing. Get a good Recirc skimmer to compare to instead of one you were using which looks like a turbofloater.

[redwinger]

Originally Posted by Graham

Yes, I run the old reefmania 250 with a Beckett injector. FWIW, my pump is rated at 130W, though that doesn't mean that's what it actually draws (it's prolly more).

Back when this debate used to get heated , we contemplated doing a side-by-side, but no one had that extra skimmer to part with. I thought that having an intake for each skimmer placed equidistant from the overflow line would allow the best comparison. The skimmate would then be dried and weighed after a given amount of time.

If the 2 types are indeed better at removing different "stages" of nutrients than the other, then running both concurrently might give the best results known to mortal man. Don't get me wrong, I've seen what recircs can do and it's way impressive.....but obviously not mandatory for a nice healthy tank.

In order to do this accuratelly, you would need to do all that you are suggesting Graham, but then find a way to remove the salt from both cups. And yes recircs aren't nesc. for a beautiful tank and neither are becketts

[Wiskey]

They both work, my recerc needle wheel was probably a peice of junk though. I had nothing but problems with it, even though it was rated for the same tank size as my new bekett it never took out what this thing has in only 3 days.

After dealing with my skimmer, and doing a few weeks of research, I decided I was not going to risk trying another recerc needle wheel and I was just going to go with what I knew works.

Whiskey

[Wiskey]

And yes mine was a turbofloater, but I had the good pump on it, the ocean runner 2700.

Whiskey

[Wiskey]

BTW. I am not going to throw the turbofloater out, it will replace the seaclone on my 15 gallon tank. Do you think a skimmer rated for 250 gallons will be enough on a 15 gallon tank?

We will see
Whiskey

[Graham]

Originally Posted by redwinger

Your right I can't process 5 million gallons per hour but the idea is to do it right the first time.

I know you're just jabbing, John, but I've heard lots of recirc people put out that claim that dwell time is far more important than how much water you're processing - or the intensity with which water and air collide. It seems like it depends on who you talk to - both are important, but it seems like one comes at the expense of the other - which is why I'm going to add another foot to my skimmer column. Seems like the only way to increase dwell time in a Beckett, and my column could easily add another foot with the pump I have.

I have yet to see data on which skimmables have the most affinity for the bubble. Meaning, what compounds/molecules are taken out first? What is the proper contact time? If you look at how long a given molecule were to stay in a recirc vs. a backett, are you gaining? Maybe for some things, but stubborn molecules are just that and a recirc probably doesn't give enough dwell time for some of those either. Are more of the things we are most concerned with removing removed most easily? Conversely, are intense collisions required to get some things to stick? Can we collide more intensely and get results equal to better dwell time? Dunno. Fun to think about, though.

From http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...ory/WtTh_3.htm

"How well a certain fractionator works depends on a combination of the following factors: organic matter concentration of the water, air bubble size, amount of air with respect to the amount of water and the efficiency of foam removal. If the foam is not removed properly the foam will collapse and the skins will appear as flocs in the water (Johnson et al, 1986). These skins can act as substrates for further aggregation of suspended matter. This explains the increase in filterable material that is sometimes observed in systems that use foam fractionation (Wickins and Helm, 1981)."

The question as I see it is what dwell time is needed beyond which you aren't gaining that much. Needlewheels produce lots of foam, but so does any bucket of saltwater that is "shredded". It doesn't mean there is protein attached to all that foam.

Pros and cons, I know. Fewer and less intense collisions with recircs and less dwell time with Becketts. Both are factors. That's why I think we all need to run both types 24/7.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by redwinger

In order to do this accuratelly, you would need to do all that you are suggesting Graham, but then find a way to remove the salt from both cups.

Nah, just weigh the cup at the beginning - before evap. We can assume that water will evap as it is being collected at a constant rate in both collection vessels. Given that each skimmer is processing the same salinity water (same tank), you could figure out the fraction of the wet weight that is salt. Bettter yet, measure the salinity of the skimmate. Then do the math.

Either that or express your results as "x" dissolved solids per unit of skimmate volume. I think that would standardize it. I doubt that one method is better at removing ions than another, since ions aren't skimmable.

[Graham]

Whoops

[NoSchwag]

Many people with becketts are proud of there crystal clear water, well so am I.

My man, arnt you running filter socks?

[Wiskey]

Originally Posted by NoSchwag

My man, arnt you running filter socks?

That would explain the clear water

Whiskey

[redwinger]

Originally Posted by NoSchwag

My man, arnt you running filter socks?

Currently I am not but have in the past. No major difference running with or without IME. To big of a PIA to switch out and clean every couple of days. I just clean the small amount out of my sump that accumulates over the period of two weeks from when I drain and clean my sump.

[otolith]

Originally Posted by Graham

John.

I must say I was impressed seeing otolith's monster recirc. It was removing an impressive amount of gunk. Way more than I get out of my tank.

I thought my ears were burning.

I like my recirc a lot. I liked my beckett as well, but I had a hard time trying to get it adjusted...so much so that I would have flooded the floor on multiple occasions were it not for the auto shutoff valve. That's what made me change skimmers. Plus I got to be reefmania's beta tester for this skimmer, so how could I pass that up?

I must admit that I like seeing Graham and Redwinger banter out here than where they usually do. Seems to keep the "others" in line a little better.

[otolith]

Whiskey--nice skimmer. Glad you're happy, cause that's all that matters.

In regards to the Gen-X pumps...my older style has a little more hum than the newer style I also run.

[redwinger]

Originally Posted by otolith

I must admit that I like seeing Graham and Redwinger banter out here than where they usually do. Seems to keep the "others" in line a little better.

Were just spreading the love There is enough banter over there latelly that it makes me sick. This is actually quite civilized