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Old 03-01-2006, 03:27 PM   #1
NoSchwag
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Everything I ever learned about setting up a BB tank.


This thread is not really a how to, but more what I have learned thru my research and experiences and my feeings about setting up a BB tank, a manifesto so to speak Hopefully this helps people in setting up their tank.

Cook Rocks

The first thing I want to talk about is cooking rock. I was fortunate enough to cook my rocks but there are many people that can't or wont, or do it one way or another way. This is not a "must do", but doing it gives you that much more of a headstart to a clean tank.

Here's how I did it.
- got 2 rubbermaid brute garbage cans and 5 rubbermaid bins.
- filled up 1 brute and all 5 rubbermaids set up in a row with aged/aerated (24 hours)ASW. I made sure the brute was heated to tank temps and had an airstone at the bottom.
-set up a bunch of towels between the rubbermaids
- violently dunked and swished each rock in each rubbermaid for like 30 seconds or so
- after the 5 rubbermaids I placed the rock in the brute and put the top on. After the 5th rubbermaid the water was pretty clean
- I would wait 7 days and do the whole process over again. The rubbermaids would be just as dirty as the week before.

This went on for about 2 months. Something I later learned was that my rock was probably "base" rock by that time (it was stored in a tub for months in a very cold garage for months) and that I should have added an ammonia source to jump start the cycle.

I still blow my rocks off every week, sometimes a few times a week.

Sumps

Next I'd like to mention sump design. The thing I wanted in my sump was a place for stuff to settle, no microbubbles, and to help me in the skimming of my filthy, stinkin, water. I keep my sump in the dark so it stays bacterial driven and there is no algae growth in it.

My sump is set up in 3 sections.. From right to left = compartments 1-2-3



-The first compartment is where the overflow from the tank (pointed towards the intake of my skimmer), my temp controller probe (so I can get a reading from my whole tank), and my skimmer intake (with screen) is. I set up 2 baffles between the first and second compartment, the go under than over in to the second compartment. I made these baffles pretty close, about 1" apart and less than 1" off the ground. This keeps most of the dirty water in compartment 1 where my skimmer can get it. Something I should mention here is that my skimmer pump and return pump are the same exact pump (pcx-55) This allows me to skim most of the water that flows thru the tank.

-The second compartment is where my skimmer intake is(at a 45 degree), and my heaters are(to heat the whole tank before the probe). At the end of compartment 2 there are 2 baffles that go over then under in to compartment 3. These baffles are about 2" apart and 2" off the ground. I tried a few different widths but found 2" to stop all microbubbles from entering the tank. Any less than 2" (with my pump speed) and my tank suffers from bubble fogging. The baffles slow the water down just enough to let the bubbles pop before the enter compartment 3. I know other people use eggcrate and baffles to slow the water down.

-Compartment 3 is my just my return pump (with screen). This is also the settling compartment of my sump. I notice that when I skim "dry" this is the compartment that fills up with fish poo and food particles. This is 1 of 2 ways I know my skimmer is working at it's best, the other way is my skimmer cup walls.

If I had anything to do over again in the sump it would be to make compartment 3 bigger and the "under" baffles taller. Compartment 3 is the compartment that houses the effects of wet skimming and evaporation. The collection cup for the skimmer is 5 gal, compartment 3 is about 6. Thank god my skimmer is stable and doesn't overflow or my pump would run dry and I'd be in a heap of trouble . What I end up doing is overfilling my sump but this defeats the purpose of my baffling system. I am going to make a new bucket out of a 3 gallon pail tomorrow.

Skimmers and Skimming Wet

Now the favorite subject, skimmers.. The skimmer is the backbone of my system. I have tried 2 skimmers, an ASM G3 and a mr2. I don't want to sound like I am bashing the G3 or needlewheels but I should tell you why I decided to get rid of it and switch to a becket type.



One thing is that G3 skimmer pump wasn't powerful enough. In order to wet skim (which is key) I would have to jack the water way up in the skimmer. The solid mass of bubbles wouldn't start until the reduction in the neck, what would happen is most of the water would bypass that solid foam and go right back into the tank. The skimmer was great at producing that flowey, swirly bubble mass, but not the tight, upward moving bubble mass needed to remove particles. The swirly bubbles arn't strong enough to grab the particles and move them out. Also by jacking the water way up in the neck my skimmer was prone to overflow and dump dirty water back in the tank consistently. I just didn't feel like this skimmer was cleaning my tank, the only way I was able to remove particles was with a filter sock.

I hear people throw out the term "wet skimming" a lot but I wonder if they are really wet skimming correctly. I am no expert and dont claim to be but I did consult with a few people about wet skimming and I feel I have a good handle on it. IMO just because the skimmate is watery doesn't mean that you are wet skimming, it just means that your skimmate is wet. Thru my research on reefcentral, the first person I saw mention "wet skimming" was the infamous Bomber and all he used was a becket type skimmer. It was also stated that a needlewheel type of skimmer was meant for dry foam and it makes perfect since seeing how much the reduction in the neck was.

For wet skimming I am under the impression that there should be no dry foam what-so-ever coming out of the skimmer. My skimmer bubbles very rarely spill over into the collection cup and just pop at the top of the riser, this splatters particle matter all over my skimmer cup. I have to wipe down my collection cup every 2 days so that I can see thru to my riser, this is the second way I can tell if the skimmer is working. If I wipe down the cup and dont instantly see a slime starting to build up, something is not right. I don't really know how to explain to someone how to to wet skim, but I can tell you that with my configuration the swirly bubbles stop right at the bottom of the top riser (under the quick release). From the bottom to the top of the upper riser I have a solid column of bubbles that move upwards. At the very top of the riser the bubbles get a little bigger, then pop. There is probably on 5 seconds total of contact time. Also my riser never really needs to be wiped down.

Here is a picture of my cleanish skimmer cup


Here is a dirty picture..


And here is a really bad video..
http://s50.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=184MRQ427XS8V1E9SPOLZHK246

This is my skimmer. There are many like it, but this one is mine. This skimmer is a modded MR2. I used to have an up and over into the intake of my skimmer and return pump but after talking to the manufactures, I decided to drill the sump and go straight in to the pump. They told me that my pump is very good at pushing water, not so good at pulling. After drilling the sump I noticed a major difference in my pumps performance. After researching more I found gregt's thread on reefcentral and he is running an up and over on his pumps, he calls it a "hook". Come to find out he uses a larger diameter pipe so there is as much water available to the pump as it needs. Hopefully that helps someone.

As far as the modding goes the becket is raised off of the separation/reaction chamber about 6" with a 1" pipe, the 1" from the pump output goes directly into the becket (no 90 "L"), and there is a carbon air filter. I'm not really sure what raising the becket off of the box does. I heard something about backpressure and allowing more time for the bubbles to separate. I also didn't know what the 1" straight in to the becket did either until I replaced it with the old 90 that was originally on there. I noticed I had to re-adjust, for the worst, my air and water settings to get where I wanted to be with wet skimming. The carbon air filter was the best mod. Every time I would light a candle or cook my skimmer foam would drop down, not anymore. Also my skimmer mixes a ton of air in to my water and I want it to be clean air. I have alost invested in that water and I want it to be as clean as possible. Also it's great not to have to change that little cotton ball which would get all clogged up and effect skimming often.

I made a 5 gallon collection cup with auto shutoff that I found when looking at gregt's thread. If you're reading this, thanks Greg! This was so helpful while learning to adjust my skimmer (which was the worst part about setting up my becket)

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hlight=divider

My skimmer is set high and the output enters the sump in at a 45 degree angle. This keeps the level in my skimmer very consistent and lets the skimmer drain fast.
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Old 03-01-2006, 03:27 PM   #2
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Flow

For the flow in my tank I am using 2 penductors with 2 bal valves powered by my return pump (pcx-55). So far I have found the best direction fo' my flow has been the penductors pointing at each other towards the front of the tank. The streams bounce off of each other and swoop down the front of the tank. This keeps a lot of the crap in suspension. I do have piles that form every time I close one of the ball valves a little , adjusting the flow.

I can use more flow only because my skimmer works good, I don't "need" it, but I wouldn't mind having it. I personally think too many people get caught up in flow and not in export. I feel that the flow is only as good as your skimmer. If your skimmer isn't removing the particles, all you are doing is blowing dirty water around. It's almost better to let piles form so that you can siphon them instead of keeping in suspension hoping your skimmer removes them or letting them rot in a filter sock. I learned this first hand trying the whole "slow flow thru sump" thing with my asm g3. I was better off siphoning piles instead of blowing poo around and catching it with the filter sock. I have read somewhere that this stuff breaks down a whole lot faster in a high flow area , aka filter sock or blowing around your tank.

Lighting

I know nothing about the science of light or why one type might be better than another. I do think that lighting gets way too much attention and wet skimming not enough. People are growing sps corals under all types of lights.

Auto top off

I personally know people that have had accidents with autotop off float type switches so I dont use them. I have 2 brutes (from the cooking) 1 has ASW for skimmate replacement, 1 has ro/di for evap replacement. It's all done manually but it's really not that bad. My skimmer will skim about 1 gallon a day so at the end of 5 days I'll empty the collection bucket and throw 5 gallons of ASW in the sump. I evap all different, but it's probably about 1 gallon a day. For this I do it manually and use a refractometer to see how close I am. I hear people say that skimmate is high in salt, but I don't find that when I test my skimmate.

In a perfect world I would have a drip or a litermeter to handle my evap, and still manually dump 5 gallons of ASW at the end of the week.

That's about all I have for now. Feel free to pick it apart, argue with me, give me props, or not respond at all.
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:15 PM   #3
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:32 PM   #4
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Nice write up .The video didn't work for me though. How about some tank pics?
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:40 PM   #5
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double post.
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:40 PM   #6
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tripple post
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:41 PM   #7
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Thats some good read there NoSchwag.

I am wondering how many gallons your tank is if you can wait to add 5 gallons of asw.

I am using a G-6 and my skimmer kicks @$$. I can wet skim dry skim or what ever but I alsio have 3 sedra 9000 on it instead of a single 5000. I may add a second skimmer in the future... A beckette style skimmer for wet skimming and keep the G-6 for dry skimming. I have heard that the beckettes are much better at wet skimming.


As far as the light thing goes... what you say is true... If your water is clean enough you can grow SPS under NO bulbs if they are right on them. But you will never get the growth and color like you will with high intensity bulbs.

Cooking... your rock will (the way I see it anyways) continue to cook after you stop cooking it. It will for months continue to drop detritus out of it... And as long as you keep the water clean there should be no issues with it. That is something that can't be done in a DSB tank and cooking the rock should have more focus there.
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:41 PM   #8
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What the crap?
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:44 PM   #9
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I like the auto topoff section. I agree on the skimmer, you can get them to run wet for a needlewheel but never as wet as a beckett. I also think you defeat the purpose of the needlewheel design which is dwell time, by skimming wet.
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:59 PM   #10
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It's not full of huge corals yet, but in a few years I'll be able to say my entire tank was grown from frags..







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Old 03-01-2006, 05:02 PM   #11
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here's the video..

http://s50.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1...V1E9SPOLZHK246
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Old 03-01-2006, 05:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by three90s&125sump
What the crap?
don't you love it?
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Old 03-01-2006, 05:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
I am wondering how many gallons your tank is if you can wait to add 5 gallons of asw.
It's a 120. I can wait to add 5 gallons of ASW but not ro/di

Quote:
I am wondering how many gallons your tank is if you can wait to add 5 gallons of asw.
I told you, a 120.. My skimmate is the same sg as my tank so it's only like going from a 120 to a cleaner 115.

Quote:
I am wondering how many gallons your tank is if you can wait to add 5 gallons of asw.
A 120, Sheeeesh
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Old 03-01-2006, 05:33 PM   #14
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LOL, I don't know what happened there. i was typing then all of a sudden it tripple posted me.
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Old 03-01-2006, 05:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSchwag
It's not full of huge corals yet, but in a few years I'll be able to say my entire tank was grown from frags..

Thats partly my plan too. I am sure I will buy some larger SPS that are slow growing like some brains and what not. I think all my SPS will be off frags if I can get them to grow. Yes, I do ahve my doubts.

Is that a PBT?

I just noticed your brain. thats nice kinda big for a frag though. LOL.
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algae growth , ball valve , dsb tank , filter sock , high flow area , mag float , reaction chamber , skimmer pump , sps corals , wet skimming



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