Cooking Quicker

[tabwyo]

Well, I am about ready to tear down my current system for the rebuild. The equipment I have on hand for cooking the LR is 1 large opaque blue rubbermade tote w/ lid, a 75w stainless heater & 4 MJ1200 powerheads. What I am wondering is how can I optimize the cooking environment to allow for the most complete "cook" in the shortest time. I know cooking takes time. but if I can get the same results with optimum conditions in 3.5 months vs 4.5-5 months with sub par conditions. I am all for it.

First point worth pondering is flow. Last time I cooked my rock I just threw it all in the tote in a big pile and dropped in a powerhead. Now from reading various articles I have come to the understanding that a good majority of the denitrifying and Phos reducing bacteria are most energetic in a O2 rich environment. What I am contimplating doing this time around is placing one MJ1200 w/ the air asperating hose attatched on the bottom in a corner of the tote blowing towards center under a pvc/eggcrate rack to keep the rock a couple inches of bottom. I'd put a layer of rock down on the first level in a way that the high points of a few of the rocks will support another eggcrate barrier. On this first layer of rock I willplace another powerhead with the air hose attatched in a different corner blowing towards center. I will continue this up to four layers of rock w/ the eggcrate dividers placing a powerhead with air line attatched in a different corner. Last PH will sit at the topp in the last onoccupied corner.

Next point is temp. Things go faster the hotter it gets (to a point). We get faster bacter cultures in our lab by using elevated yet constant tempretures. I can set the heater as high as 95 deg F. Now the higher the temp the lower the O2 saturation levels. But I figure with the added flow and air mixture of the 4 powerhead setup I plan on. With the elevated temp I'd basically be returning to a near normal O2 with the heat due to the extra circulation and extra air water interface due to the air injected via the powerheads.

Last point is the intial bacterial load of the rock. It's painfully obvious by looking into my Hair Algea farm that I have a serious nutrient issue. By completely cutting out the light I'll be basically offering all of the food to the bacteria. As it stands now though, the algea is obviously getting a portion of it. In a no light situation would it be benificial to dose a supplamental bacteria (prodibio, zevite...)? The idea would be to jump start the bacterial population. Then adding an additional dose every week after the scrub, dunk n swish routine once back in freshly changed water. I guess the way I am thinking is if you have an overgrown lot you want cleared. You can add a couple goats and get it done. Or you can add a bunch of goats and get it done quicker. Now I'd hope you'd remove the excess goats from the property once the plant situation was under control. but with bacteria, there will be a die off until the bacteria population is back in balance with the food available. By artificially keeping the baterial load high with the regular addition of fresh cultures. I exhaust the food supply faster then allowing the system to run in a balanced state.

Any other ideas?? Somewhere I made a mistake cooking my rock the last time. Because it seemed to jumpstart an HA bloom as soon as it was reintroduced to a well lit tank. So why not learn from it?

[jenglish]

Is the point of your cooking stripping PO4 or complete bacterial conversion. I have wondered about the process of doing the muriatic acid dip and then culturing bacteria in the then stripped rock. What are the costs/benefits of this versus regular time cooking? WOuld this be a way of cooking quicker? I have not tried either method but have some rock that was given to me that I am contemplating the muriatic acid method and just wondered if in your reading you had read of this and ruled it out for some reason?

[tabwyo]

I have never heard of stripping via acid method. I'll have to look that up. But my basic goal is to purge/flush/strip the rock of as much/many algea contributing nutrients and compounds as possible. Most notably Phos. But in all reality I'd like as much or all of the crap that's in my rock gone. I figure so long as the cost of the cooking isn't greater that 75% of the original cost of the rock. Then it's well worth it.

I'd guess with the acid method you are basically killing everything in and on the rock. The reintroduceing the only the desired bacteria to then use up the leftovers. Am I close??

Ok after a lil looking I see the acid method is intended for dry base rock. So now here's another question. What if I don't mind returning my LR to base rock then reculturing it with benificial becteria?? This would basically be starting over with a clean slate right?? I have a very well established refugium. So I'd guess that there is a pretty divers range of critters in it just waiting to make the jump to new digs once the rock is reintroduced.

[jenglish]

Basically I got live rock and decided to return it to base rock before trying the method. The rock is basically just given to me and there is no way I have any room to use it so it is mostly experimental. if I dissolved the rock completely it would be OK. I would rather not waste it but still. If I were to guess I would think this rock would be loaded w/ PO4 and possibly questionable critters. The sand that came with it was like 10-20% detritus by volume! I am not advocating this method as A. I have not tried it yet and B. it obviously has its drawbacks of essentially sterilizing the rock. You would likely lose some actual rock weight besides bacteria/detritus weight. But I think its an interesting concept

[tabwyo]

Give it a shot on a piece of rock. And keep us posted........

[jenglish]

Aside from putting rock in water and wait for it to leech enough to read on a hobbey level test kit.... How do you know that a acid dip or a standard cooking procedure has been effective?

[tabwyo]

you could do a controled study of sorts. Three rock pieces of comparable weight.

Specimen A) In a blacked out bucket with SW w/ an airstone for water movement.
Specimen B) Treated with muriatic bath for 72hrs, rinsed throughly and allowed to sit in RO/DI FW for 24 hours. Then placed in a blacked out bucket with airstone for water movement and inoculated with a bacterial culture for 4 week period. At this time the other test pecimens will be placed in their containers.
Specimen C) Placed in lighted bucket with airstone for water movement.

Time period: 4 weeks, specimens should be placed in their respective test containers at the same time (+/- the time it takes to pull each out of the tank and place it in the prepared container).
Container size: 5g buckets filled with 3g 1.024 SW. All base water should be RO/DI or distilled. Same SW mix used in all three tests.
Water Changes: Conduted weekly and all three old water samples tested. Final water tested at the end of the 4 weeks.





I guess the best way to run this as a test of results on LR would be to place the 3 selected pices in a container of SW and allow it to cycle and stabilize befor the test.

[TahoeMtn]

I added a phosphate reactor to my cooking tank and used Granular Ferric Oxide from Bulk Reef Supply to help the process

[OneDummHikk]

Originally Posted by tabwyo

I figure so long as the cost of the cooking isn't greater that 75% of the original cost of the rock. Then it's well worth it.

What happens if you replace all your rock with new rock and it is also loaded with nutrients? There is more to think about than just the $ cost of cooking versus replacing.

Originally Posted by tabwyo

you could do a controled study of sorts. Three rock pieces of comparable weight.

The issue there is trying to get three pieces of rock that have comparable nutrient levels in the rock. The purpose of the test would be to see how well each method removes nutrients from the rock. If you don't start with the same levels, the test isn't very reliable.

[duijver]

Question. Is the 1:1 vinegar/water bath really the muriatic bath? Looking here it seems like this stuff wouldn't be easy to get or get rid of? http://www.mcmua.com/hazardouswaste/...iatic_Acid.htm or do we just get this stuff from a local poor store? http://www.hasapool.com/catalog/p-2.htm

[tabwyo]

Originally Posted by OneDummHikk

What happens if you replace all your rock with new rock and it is also loaded with nutrients? There is more to think about than just the $ cost of cooking versus replacing.



The issue there is trying to get three pieces of rock that have comparable nutrient levels in the rock. The purpose of the test would be to see how well each method removes nutrients from the rock. If you don't start with the same levels, the test isn't very reliable.

That is why I said "of sorts". Would it be scientific? Not really. Would it yield exact results? No. But given the rock has been in the same system for extended period of time. I'd be fairly inclined to say they'd carry a similar nutrient load. 3 rocks from 3 different systems, no way. The suggested parameters would provide for a semi controled (term losely applied)test. Even if it tells us nothing... that would be something.

[tabwyo]

And I fully understand the risks of buying all new LR.

[tabwyo]

I think I am leaning more towards 80# of dry base. That way I can arange it and get the rod supports in and the rocks epoxied and foamed together befor it goes in the tank. I'll just run the system as is while the base rock soaks for a month or so. Then I'll swap out rock and cook my LR for a good long while. Then once the LR is done doin it's thing then I'll rig up a rubbermade fuge with some pipe and bulkheads. I'd run this extra rock in a no light fuge. It would be a simple enough mateer to isolate the rock fuge do a dunk n swish on the rocks and siphon out whatever accumulated on the bottom once a month. I can t off my return line to feed it so it would only be getting water that's made it's pass through a couple filter socks, the skimmer and my series of media reactors.

[OneDummHikk]

I know you probably already know it, but, base rock can come loaded with nutrients as well. Something to think about if you are going to get new base and already have an issue with what you have. What will mitigate it is that you are going to cook all of it before its over.

Have you considered trying a phosban reactor? It will take time but it will help with phosphate issues in the rocks which is typically the source of the algae issues.

Good luck with it.

[tabwyo]

I am running a 3 reactor set up right now. One with phosban and two with carbon.

I intended to "cook" the base rock befor swaping over. Perhaps this acid bath method to open up the pour structure a bit as well. It won't be going in the system until I can't detect PO4. I'll take a water sample to my lab and test it there. Our equepment is about 100 times more sensitive than even a top of the line kit.