Berlin Method

AquaGrizzly · 02-03-2007, 12:58 AM

Anyone ever heard of the berlin method. I guess that is what I am using for my tank. Atleast that is what my friend told me I am doing. This is on a 55 gallon tank. I have no mechanical filter. The tank is not drilled, no over flow box, no sump. The only filter I have is a HOB skimmer, a lot of LR (don't know how much in pounds. atleast over 50 lbs if not closer to 100), and 3 PH (MJ 1200, MJ 600, penguin 400). I dose reef complete (3 cap fulls), Iodine (15 drops), and Strontium (1 cap full) every other day. Feed cyclopeze every other day. Mysis every 3 days. I also feed phyto feast (cap full) every day for the clam. I turn the skimmer off when dosing chems and feast. I did have a HOB filter but only had filter pads in with no Char. I took that off after 3 months of the tank running. Thought it was too much of an eye sore. I have 4 PC bulbs 96w 2 12k and 2 actinics. It has been running like this for a lil over a year now with no problems. Is there a potential for a problem? Anyone else running a tank like this? I do bi-weekly water changes with RO water (5 gal.). Top off 2 gal. with RO every 3-4 days. All my levels are the norm. I've been going through a red cyno problem from adding a couple big pieces of live rock from my 50 gal. that split at a corner seam that was up for 4 months(what a mess in the living room). Other than that nothing.

Adnuces · 02-03-2007, 06:16 AM

You dose 15 drops of iodine every other day????????? I may add a drop or two every 2 or 3 weeks if I think about it.....I have read that it is almost impossible to actually test for all forms of iodine and as it is hard to test for I don't like adding it.....I have pulsing xenia coming out the whazzo and it doesn't seem to be suffering from lack of iodine......also, you state you are doing 10% wc bi-weekly.....this should provide all the iodine you need.....provided you are using a good salt mix.

You don' t mention a skimmer? if you don't have one this could be the cause of your cyano.......too much doc? (disolved organic compounds) ..

Sounds like you have a great handle on things though....are there any pictures?

AquaGrizzly · 02-03-2007, 08:38 AM

I stated in the original post that I have a HOB Skimmer. I turn it off when I dose chems and feast. Lights don't come on for another 2 hrs but here is an old one. I added a lot more rocks and corals since this pic. Try to get an update when ligths come back on.

Junkzoo · 02-03-2007, 12:17 PM

Iodine and Lugol's (strong iodine) are two different things,,as far as concentration,,,Lugol's is way stronger,,,vs reg iodine,,,since i have not really ever used reg reef iodine, and only used Lugol's when i had my xenia colonies,,in the past, can'treally comment on how much is too much , for a tank,,,,
But , really don't know if that much (15 drops) is a lot as far as iodine dosage,,,i'd think that a test kit for it, would be the think to have,,,,since OD'ing on iodine is not a good thing , for a tank,,,

lostwhirley · 02-03-2007, 06:40 PM

IMHO,

All those chemicals are a waste. The only thing that I use on my 65 gallon tank is limewater. I do dose Kent's Phyto, but that's just to feed the feather dusters and other little organisms.

Adnuces · 02-03-2007, 06:49 PM

When I dose iodine it is Tropic Marin Lugols also......I know that the iodine in the water is not all testable without specific test kits to test for free iodine, iodide and iodate.....all of which in too high concentration is not a good thing.

AquaGrizzly · 02-03-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostwhirley

IMHO,

All those chemicals are a waste. The only thing that I use on my 65 gallon tank is limewater. I do dose Kent's Phyto, but that's just to feed the feather dusters and other little organisms.

I'm afraid to change anything. I don't want to disrupt the way I am doing something and a coral start to die. So I will keep doing what I am doing and let them be happy.

bklynmet · 02-03-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AquaGrizzly

I'm afraid to change anything. I don't want to disrupt the way I am doing something and a coral start to die. So I will keep doing what I am doing and let them be happy.

As you may know already, there are many ways to accomplish the same thing.. keep doing what works for you...

but if you're trying to diagnose the cyano cause, you may have to see what you're adding in your husbandry practices...

Junkzoo · 02-03-2007, 09:58 PM

Yup, like B-met stated , cyano is there due to a few things, mainly "food" for it. Most all new tanks go thru a session with it, and most times, it goes away,,,A tank can be considered "new" IMO, for quite a while,,i like to say that a tank that has been running let's say 2-3 yrs, is still kinda "new" and on it's way to maturity.
The topic of how long is it b4 a tank is considered "mature" has been discussed in the general reef forum here at TRT. Think the consensus was a tank was thought of as mature, was when it hit the 4-5 yr mark,,as long as there were no setbacks of a major fashion,,just the normal cycle stuff in the beginning, the stage on having cyano/ hair algae etc., then the tank levels off for a bit , and with luck continues without having much of anything related to causing a setback to the tank,,,then the tank is on it's way to becoming mature, and more stable,,,,
I'm not a fan of anything you add to control cyano, i think it does more harm than good IMO. Just try to limit the nutrients in the tank,,more like the excess nutrients,,and the cyano should fade away.
I've got a 75 reef here, prob has been up n runiing in it's most recent configuration, for prob 7-8 yrs now,,and probably 4-5 yrs ago, i noticed the tank was what i called "bulletproof",,not too many actual problems with the tank, or things that changed a lot,,it kinda ran by itself,,, i have a heavy bioload in it, with the number of fish i have,,,so i have to watch my feeding , of fish and corals, so i don't run into problems with any excess nutrients,,and start to notice a lil bit of the tank going that way,,more algae than the tangs/lawnmower blenny can handle , or the clean up crew is falling behind,, The fish in this tank will eat every day if i allow it,,but a lot of times, i tend to feed every other day,,or so,,and everyone is still fat n sassy,,and the tank actually tends to look even better, when i don't feed a few days or so.

Adnuces · 02-04-2007, 05:07 AM

that is a good point.....I think most problems with docs etc can be atributed to overfeeding. We do tend to overfeed and I am as guilty as the next. I am having a small cyano issue now and my tank is over the 1 year mark. Mine I believe is directly related to feeding. I have cut back to every other day and it seems to be subsiding. That and aggressive water changes......*I will be doing 20% a week until I see it go away.

As to additives......I know that if it is working for you, you don't want to change it but I would strongly recommend that you cut back on the amount of iodine you are supplementing as it can become toxic and builds up in the water .... It may take a long time to manifest itself but it could. Water changes should supply most of the iodine needed......0ther wise you have a good system, keep up the good work.

grallster · 02-04-2007, 02:37 PM

Let's not forget that alot of cyano growth in an otherwise healthy tank could be due to inadequate water flow in that area.

AquaGrizzly · 02-04-2007, 02:58 PM

The cyano outbreak did not happen until I added the LR from my other tank. Everything was great untill then. No algae or problems.. The rock I added had some on it and it just spread. Everything is settling down now. Got a seahare to take care of it. After he runs out of algae I'll be selling him. Don't want the bugger to die.

bklynmet · 02-04-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adnuces

that is a good point.....I think most problems with docs etc can be atributed to overfeeding. We do tend to overfeed and I am as guilty as the next. I am having a small cyano issue now and my tank is over the 1 year mark. Mine I believe is directly related to feeding. I have cut back to every other day and it seems to be subsiding. That and aggressive water changes......*I will be doing 20% a week until I see it go away.

As to additives......I know that if it is working for you, you don't want to change it but I would strongly recommend that you cut back on the amount of iodine you are supplementing as it can become toxic and builds up in the water .... It may take a long time to manifest itself but it could. Water changes should supply most of the iodine needed......0ther wise you have a good system, keep up the good work.

I was doing 10% weekly water changes to combat the cyano.. a direct result of that battle was a DINO outbreak and the constant weekly water changes fueled that outbreak a lot.. based on what a 'LFS' (Preuss Pets in Lansing), I cut back water changes to once a month but swap out carbon every week. It worked great! I was at my wits end before this - tried chemi clean, phosban, daily siphoning of the 'crud'. I was already feeding the tank just a pinch of food once a day.
Not doing water changes every week worked for my tank as it allowed more natural baceria to finally get a foothold the dino and outcompete it for the excess nutrients... the carbon did its part too..
Moral of this story - there's more than one way to accomplish the same thing... not doing frequent changes worked for me.

Adnuces · 02-05-2007, 02:58 PM

by dino are you referring to diatoms? and if using ro/di water how can the waterchanges contribute? I would think that the greater concentration of nitrifying bacteria are contained in the deep sand bed and live rock? and any subsequent water changes would reduce any nutrient buildup not add to it.......

bklynmet · 02-05-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adnuces

by dino are you referring to diatoms? and if using ro/di water how can the waterchanges contribute? I would think that the greater concentration of nitrifying bacteria are contained in the deep sand bed and live rock? and any subsequent water changes would reduce any nutrient buildup not add to it.......

nope - by dino I mean dinaflaggelletes... looked like 'snot' and coated everything in mats a lot stronged than cyano... it was wicked.