Sump room plumbing

[Rick O]

I'm about ready to start running the plumbing to my sump room and I need some input on pipe sizing.

There will be about 35' of horizontal run and about 7' of vertical drop, most of this occuring at the tank. I'm pretty much set to run 1" for the return but the drain side is what I'm still undecided about. I have two overflows with Durso standpipes. I was thinking about either running two 1 1/4" drains or one 2" drain. Obviously one drain will cost less and be easier to run. I plan to enclose all the pipes in 1/2" closed cell foam pipe insulation.

Thoughts or suggestions?

[gregt]

How many gph?

[Rick O]

I'm still open on the return pump decision. I don't usually like a high flow rate through my sump. I've got about 900 gph with my current setup and don't really have a micro bubble problem so I'll probably stay somewhere around that.

[Mafiaman]

I have 1200gph going thru a 1 1/2" and there is room for more

[gregt]

I think one 2" would work very well.

[tdwyatt]

ditto on the 2" pipe, you may want to have an open vent in the drain pipe at the tank end (must exceed the total height of the water column's max height by 10%). Use 1.5" supply line, as this will be slower flow INSIDE the pipe, but will have near zero frictional losses for long horizontal losses at the GHP rates you are speaking of. reduce it back to 1" at the end where it goes into the aquarium to bring up flow speed.

just in case, you will want a cleanout plug in a few locations for the drain side just in case you get an errant snail or sea cuke...

[Rick O]

Running one 2" pipe will make this project a lot easier. Thanks for everyone's input. Will it matter that I may have five or more elbows?

Tom can I just extend my Durso up a little higher to act as my vent?

[tdwyatt]

you'll need a vent in the line to keep it from vapor locking (it reallydoesn't do that, but occasionally the water will want to flow faster than the amount of volume in the pipe will allow, without venting in the line at the level of the long horizontal run, the line will begin to act as a siphon, and I don't think the durso will be enough at the rate of air that most of the durso vents allow. The siphoning will increasevolume untill it runs out of water, or the level of the water in the durso drops enough to break the siphon by "flushing" and pulling air down the drain line to relieve the suction that forms. Venting seperately will reduce noise and allow forsmoother operation rather than having fluctuating drain flow velocity. Additionally, at the end where the drain drops into your remote sump, it would be good to have a "T" or street elbow with a top "t", Extend the top of the vertical line to the same height as the top of the aquarium's water column plus 10% and the bottom into the water, or possibly into a 6" diameter piece of pvc that extends from the bottom to an inch or so above the water level of the sump. This will act as a bubble seperator and splash guard to reduce the amount of spray and salt creep resulting from spray.

Man, you'll be able to build one BIG skimmer now...

[Rick O]

Ok Tom, now you've thrown a kink into this. The plumbing is going to run through the crawl space into a room I built in the garage. Having a vent in the long horizontal run that extends that high would be nearly impossible. I figured I would need one at the sump end but again having one extend up higher than the tank is not possible. Unless I drill a hole in the front of the house and have the vent go up the outside of the house. But I don't think Mrs Rick would allow that.

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Rick O
Unless I drill a hole in the front of the house and have the vent go up the outside of the house. But I don't think Mrs Rick would allow that.

if you wait a little longer you could paint it like a candy cane and call it a Christmas decoration!

G~

[tdwyatt]

Originally posted by Rick O
...Having a vent in the long horizontal run that extends that high would be nearly impossible. I figured I would need one at the sump end but again having one extend up higher than the tank is not possible.

I have a few alternative fixes, but I will need to see the actual site to make a decent suggestion without spending a lot of time describing them here. The problem with a vent that is lower than the highest point of the water column involves "burping" and potential backflushing of that long a horizontal line. not to mention the need for a particular percentage drop per linear distance of run.

We'll talk, one of the odd jobs I did while in school was work for a plumber in existing structures (oh boy... ...lots of stories on THAT! ) Didn't you say that the $3 cafe has NEWCASTLE???

[Rick O]

Originally posted by tdwyatt
I have a few alternative fixes, but I will need to see the actual site to make a decent suggestion without spending a lot of time describing them here.

Well come on.

Didn't you say that the $3 cafe has NEWCASTLE???

Yes and there's one close to my house.

[Rick O]

Tom would it work for me to vent it in the crawl space? I have seen vents under sinks in some newer homes. I know that in the event of a restriction I would have water in the crawl but that's better than the living room floor. I was hoping to run my plumbing this weekend.

[Minnreefer]

Would a bigger pipe help?

[Rick O]

There will need to be a vent for it to drain properly. Like houses have. I just thought the vent on my Durso standpipe would be enough.