Sponsor Our Community
Go Back   The Reef Tank > General Forums > Freshwater Discussion
Have a question? It's Free!

Freshwater Discussion A place to discuss fresh and brackish water tanks and ponds.


Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-06-2008, 11:08 AM   #1
nobody
Shark
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,569
Images: 5
Question

thinking of doing a freshwater again(questions)


soi was thinking of doing a fresh water tank again and was wondering....

1) is a drilled tank with overflows as healthy for fresh as it is for salt?

2) is a wet/dry the better way to go with a drill tank or is a plain sump with just a sock for debri better?

i want to do a regular fresh tank no discus or africians....
Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!
nobody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 11:34 AM   #2
Wiskey
Just some guy, you know?
 
Wiskey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 18,935
Images: 71
Are you ripping down your salt tank in favor of a freshwater tank?

I don't like sumps for FW because all the splashing off gasses my CO2 and since I'm trying so hard to get CO2 into the water for the plants, and I want it to stay there.

The real question is,... Will this be a Fresh water Planted tank? Or just standard freshwater?

Whiskey
__________________
Vagabond
Computers are the worlds most plentiful source of unique, and unimaginable problems.
Wiskey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 11:50 AM   #3
nobody
Shark
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,569
Images: 5
it will be fake plants so now co2 needed. i am trying to make this as easy as possible. so no plants, community fish, glass lid(little evap.) etc... I am thinking of giving my friend who has a 125g my fish/coral and setting up a fresh water. i am in my last year of school and with my ft job i am finding little time for my reef tank. so are you saying a hang on the back or canister filter is better? i figured a drilled tank with overflows and a wet dry would be better
nobody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 12:29 PM   #4
Hop
Carpe Noctem
 
Hop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Western Colorado
Posts: 8,035
Images: 26
Reviews: 25
I would stick with a regular tank and a decent cannister for regular FW and skip the sump and overflows.
__________________
Hop~
Hop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 01:05 PM   #5
Wiskey
Just some guy, you know?
 
Wiskey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 18,935
Images: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionracing View Post
it will be fake plants so now co2 needed. i am trying to make this as easy as possible. so no plants, community fish, glass lid(little evap.) etc... I am thinking of giving my friend who has a 125g my fish/coral and setting up a fresh water. i am in my last year of school and with my ft job i am finding little time for my reef tank. so are you saying a hang on the back or canister filter is better? i figured a drilled tank with overflows and a wet dry would be better
For easy's sake I would simply go with a HOB filter and a standard tank,.. not worry about drilling it and doing a sump.

Whiskey
__________________
Vagabond
Computers are the worlds most plentiful source of unique, and unimaginable problems.
Wiskey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 05:15 PM   #6
OneDummHikk
Non-Hypocritical
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hillbillyville Alabama
Posts: 8,064
Images: 274
Reviews: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionracing View Post
soi was thinking of doing a fresh water tank again and was wondering....

1) is a drilled tank with overflows as healthy for fresh as it is for salt?
From my personal experience with my 90G RR tank, I think it is actually detrimental for freshwater. When I got my 90, I had never had a SW tank (I still don't have one yet), I decided to put my FW fish in it and run the setup to figure out the equipment that I had and learn from the tank. The first issue I had was food. I have always fed what I call floating food. Flakes, bloodworms, frozen krill, goldfish pellets (for my wifes goldfish). The one exception are Algea wafers for the bottom feeders. The issue was that the food would float to the drain and go down the drain. It caused me a severed crisis New Years before I figured out what was happening. Now, I have the pump on a timer that turns the pump off 30 minutes before the automatic feeder feeds them. It gives the water time to settle down so that the fish can actually eat before the pump comes back on. That issue doesn't exist in a non-drilled tank because an HOB filter pulls water from the bottom of the water and not the top.

That led to my second issue of water flow. With an HOB, it pulls water from the bottom and returns it to the top of the tank. With an overflow, it returns it to the top of the tank. You can plumb it back to the bottom of the tank but you run into stirring up the substrate and not letting anything settle. Right now, I have 4 powerheads in that tank to keep the flow decent enough. But, even with that, I still get different tank readings depending on whether I get test water from the top of the tank or the bottom of the tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionracing View Post
2) is a wet/dry the better way to go with a drill tank or is a plain sump with just a sock for debri better?
Mine has bioballs in it running as a wet/dry. I had to take the filterpad and carbon out of it because it was trapping food/detritus and was rotting. It is what caused my fiasco New Years Eve. With just the bioballs in the wet/dry and the return pump, I don't have any problems with my water quality anymore. It lets everything settle that gets into it and I can siphon it out more easily. Never thought about using the sock though.

If I had it to do over again (and I may put FW back in it in the future), I would do it a lot different than I did. I am not going to re-do it now because I am moving in a few weeks and it will be setup as a SW tank and the FW fish will go back into my 55G tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionracing View Post
i want to do a regular fresh tank no discus or africians....
If you are getting a new tank, get a non-drilled tank with HOB filters. If you already have a drilled tank, cap the drain and use an HOB. It will save you a ton of headaches with it.

HTH.
OneDummHikk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2008, 09:51 AM   #7
nobody
Shark
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,569
Images: 5
i dont want a non drilled tank because this will become my reef tank in the future. i dont want to spend money now and more later
nobody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2008, 09:52 AM   #8
nobody
Shark
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,569
Images: 5
Quote:
From my personal experience with my 90G RR tank, I think it is actually detrimental for freshwater.
i dont see why. every display tank we have set up at work is RR even the FW tanks. they are all in perfect working order
nobody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2008, 09:24 PM   #9
dobejazz
Duper Mod !
 
dobejazz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 14,323
Images: 1312
Reviews: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionracing View Post
i dont see why. every display tank we have set up at work is RR even the FW tanks. they are all in perfect working order


I think Randy explained his reasoning quite well in his post
__________________




Kelli
dobejazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2008, 10:58 PM   #10
OneDummHikk
Non-Hypocritical
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hillbillyville Alabama
Posts: 8,064
Images: 274
Reviews: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionracing View Post
i dont see why. every display tank we have set up at work is RR even the FW tanks. they are all in perfect working order
Can you make it work? Sure you can. But, in one of your other posts, you said this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionracing View Post
i am trying to make this as easy as possible.
And with that in mind, an HOB filter is a lot easier and simple than trying to work through some of the problems I had with mine. Eventually, that tank will be FW (I want a larger SW), and I will solve the issues I have with it but it will take time, patience, and a lot of work and going through all that when you want it as easy as possible is best avoided.

Simply get an HOB filter to handle the gallons in the tank, cap the drain. When you get ready to go SW with it, remove the cap, store the HOB, and make it saltwater.
OneDummHikk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 07:41 PM   #11
Mizer67
Shark
 
Mizer67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 1,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionracing View Post
i dont want a non drilled tank because this will become my reef tank in the future. i dont want to spend money now and more later
If that is your plan, remember - no copper meds. I've heard the copper will get into the silicone and leach back later. You will hear similar warnings if you are looking at buying a used tank.
Mizer67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 08:27 PM   #12
nobody
Shark
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,569
Images: 5
still dont understand why a RR tank and fresh dont mix. i read what you wrote but i have never seen any issue with a fresh tank in a overflow/sump set up. I will do more research and figur it out. Either way i will get a rr tank but i might be capping the holes.........we'll see
nobody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 09:20 PM   #13
OneDummHikk
Non-Hypocritical
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hillbillyville Alabama
Posts: 8,064
Images: 274
Reviews: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionracing View Post
still dont understand why a RR tank and fresh dont mix. i read what you wrote but i have never seen any issue with a fresh tank in a overflow/sump set up. I will do more research and figur it out. Either way i will get a rr tank but i might be capping the holes.........we'll see
I think I should have clarified the "detrimental" part a little better in my first reply. If you are aware of the differences in the way the two systems work - overflow vs. HOB filtration - then you can make it work.

There are two major differences in the two:

1) How water gets into the filter. The overflow uses gravity to feed the pump and the pump puts the water back into the tank. The HOB uses the pump to put water into the filter and uses gravity to put it back. I can't talk about canisters because I have never used one. That difference is monumental if you don't realize it and plan for it properly.

2) Where the water comes from to the filter. And that is directly related to #1. The water that is put into an HOB filter comes from the bottom of the water column and is returned to the top of the tank. The water that is put in the overflow system comes from the top and is returned to the top. The water at the bottom of the tank doesn't get mixed in as well because the circular pattern isn't there - unless you create it yourself.

Those two differences, unless you are aware of them, can be catastrophic. And I know that from personal experience with it. The tank was up and running for two months when I looked at it New Years Eve and saw a dead fish in the tank. I removed him and you could smell the ammonia. I tested that tank the Saturday before and everything was normal as far as water parameters went. Monday night, I have a dead fish and a strong ammonia smell. I tested the water, the ammonia levels were astronomical. Just a cheap test strip test. The directions say wait 30 seconds, I didn't wait but 5 seconds to get an off-the-chart reading. 80% water change, get the levels back down. That scenario repeated itself New Years day. Another 80% water change. Jan 2, I wondered if my test strips were bad. Had Petco test it, same results. I bought my API ammonia test kit that day and got the same results. Three days in a row I had ammonia spikes that were ridiculously crazy.

The culprit? Floating food and the overflow water flow pattern. That third day I pulled the lid off my wet/dry and almost passed out from the smell. The food was floating to the drain, down the drain, and getting trapped by the filter pad in the wet/dry. It had rotted and I had a culture of worms living there. After removing the filter (and not replacing it), the tank has been normal and fine since then.

In the end, the solution to my food problem was me putting a timer on my return pump that turns it off 30 minutes before an automatic feeder feeds them. It lets the water stop flowing so the food doesn't go down the drain but lets the fish eat it instead. Then it turns back on 10 minutes after feeding.

Can you make an overflow tank setup work with FW? Absolutely. But, if you aren't aware of the differences it makes, you will experience the same types of problems with it that I did. I think the reason you don't see that type of problem in SW tanks is because the amount of flow in the tank is totally different - especially with a Reef Tank.

Good luck with the tank, but please try to learn from my mistakes. My mistakes are part of the reason I ask most of the questions I ask in GRD with regards to SW tanks. I want to learn from others mistakes in the hopes that I don't repeat them.
OneDummHikk is offline   Reply With Quote
Comparison Shopping
Danner Pondmaster 2950 Deluxe Filter System

As low as $157

at 10 sellers

Pondmaster Adjustable Bell Fountain Head Kit

As low as $8

at 22 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Aqua UV Ultima II 2000 Filter

As low as $568

at 10 sellers

ASM G-1 Protein Skimmer

As low as $225

at 9 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Kordon Aquarium NovAqua Plus Water Conditioner - 16oz

As low as $7

at 47 sellers

Rio Suction Cups Rio 1700-4600 4pack

As low as $2

at 7 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Gen-X GX 6000 Pump

As low as $64

at 7 sellers

25 Watt Aqua UV Replacement Lamp for UV Sterilizer

As low as $37

at 13 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Eheim Ehfisubstrat Filter Media Biological Filtration Media 2 liter 4 lbs

As low as $18

at 16 sellers

Tube Anemone

As low as $25

at 7 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Blue Life Precision Calcium 8oz

As low as $9

at 5 sellers

Rio 200 Impeller

As low as $6

at 6 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Kent Marine PhytoPlex Phytoplankton 8 oz.

As low as $6

at 10 sellers

250 Watt 20000K Metal Halide Bulb - Double Ended - Icecap

As low as $80

at 3 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Reply

Tags
ammonia test kit , canister filter , filter pad , fresh water planted tank , fresh water tank , frozen krill , hob filters




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Sitemap:1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196
Sponsor Our Community

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Our lawyer tells us that, by pressing the "New Thread" or "New Reply" button, you acknowledge that the opinions and information expressed in your article are yours alone and not those of thereeftank.com, dba The Reef Tank. Further, you agree to indemnify The Reef Tank, its moderators, administrators and agents from any and all liability which may arise as a result of your article. (C)opyright 2006 TheReefTank.com
 
close
Sign up for free and join one of the largest communities of saltwater aquarists!
Our members will be glad to help you with anything you need!

Join over 30,000 TRT members!

Email

Email Confirm Email
Username
Password Confirm Password

I agree to the website rules