50 gallon nano pond ;)

[jenglish]

I just got a little 50 gallon pre fab pond to tinker around with in my back yard. I'm thinking simple simple simple. How much water flow does one want for something that is more of a water garden even though it may have a few cheapo goldfish. I am considering making a little waterproof area and just running my old magnum 350 on it. Any thoughts?

[Siberman]

Should be ok although the cartridge will probably clog up quickly (you get a lot of debris in a pond ).

A pond that size would be fine with a large air pump / stone and regular vacuuming.

[Mr.Peanut]

You want to set up a small water fall to move the surface water so you'll have enough oxygen exchange.

I have 1000g in my pond and I have an 1800gph pump. So I am turning over 1 1/2x's per hour. I believe on ponds, 1/2x per hour is your min turn over rate.

Home depot sells submersible pond pump for next to nothing. A UV will help to keep the water crystal clear, and some floating Hyacinths will keep the water chemistry in order and provide protection for the fish.

In full summer bloom my Koi pond is by far my favorite collection of fish.

[jenglish]

I am wanting to try to do this as simple as possible. In fact I had considered not even using the magnum and doing no pump whatsoever. I have heard of people using oxygenating submesred plants to keep oxygen levels up and a certian type of straw as an anit algal treatment. I think I will at least start out that way. I think more movement and such is needed with heavier fish populations but I think with the primary focus being the plants it will be less vital. I suppose I will find out if I am wrong!

[OneDummHikk]

Jeremy, I didn't run airstones in my 55G freshwater planted tank. All it had on it was the little hang on filters on the back of it and plants for oxygen. It got to the point where I was dosing CO2 to get the plants to keep growing because I didn't have enough fish to keep up with the plants (even though it was overstocked). The straw could be a decomposer and provide CO2 to the plants as well although I would personally prefer to see fish providing the CO2 to the plants. Its like a saltwater tank where the fish/plants are a balancing act or you have to supplement one of them (either O2 or CO2). In any event, I would have surface agitation if it was nothing but a small powerhead pointed at the surface.

Good luck and post pics of what you do with it.

[Siberman]

The straw you're thinking of is barley straw. You can get the same effect by using hay used to feed cattle. (Seriously, don't fall for the hype. A large bale of regular pasture hay will clear the water in a large pond .)

I'm not sure about Missouri but check your local laws about Water Hyacinths. They do a great job of nutrient export ( or so I've heard ) but they're banned in most Southern states as an invasive species. Water Celery is another option.

My koi pond "turned over" ( the low-oxygen water on the bottom displaced the oxygen-rich upper water ) this last spring due to warm temps followed by cold rain / temps combined with a large amount of rotting vegetation (primarily oak leaves ) on the bottom. I have a 500 gallon, 2000 gph planted waterfall filter on this 1900 gallon pond but it didn't deliver enough oxygen to the bottom to save the 7 koi ( one was 15 years old ) and several smaller fishes I had in there. I invested in a large air pump with stones on the bottom.

My case is a bit extreme but I wanted to explain why I advocated the airstone method.

You most certainly can do a natural pond with no mechanical filtration whatsoever but watch the bio-load. You might want to consider tropicals instead of goldfish. You can raise quite a few guppies or other livebearers during the summer months with the added benefit that they'll reduce your mosquito population. I've used the aforementioned as well as zebra danios , bettas , gouramis , giant danios , tiger barbs and native fish. You'll also be well pleased with the sizes you can attain. I had a giant danio once that looked like a shad.

[Mr.Peanut]

Our winter is pretty long and cold here in NY, I use an airstone almost all year long. In the winter to keep a hole in the ice and in the summer to keep oxygen as high as I can.

Hyacinths are probably illegal in states that don't have a winter long and cold enough to kill them. They are extremely invasive. I usually buy 3 plants in the spring and I am removing 2 to 3 garbage bags full by end of summer.

[jenglish]

Yea, I hear ya. I used to have a slider turtle in Indiana that lived in a kiddy pool. 1 hyacinth covered the pool in no time and the little that washed into the ditch spread out. Luckily in Indiana it can't take root and I don't think it would here in MO either. I had a buddy that grew up in florida and the first time he saw a hyacinth for $6 at a pet store he nearly fell over laughing. Water lettuce is similar. I think the missus is wanting something to flower so I will have to look if there is a dwarf lotus or something that can be in such a small pond. We honestly would like a large pond but we are moving in 2 years so it jsut wouldn't make sense to spend the money on a bigger one.

[Mr.Peanut]

Yeah, spending the money if your moving is not a good idea. The hyacinth flowers but not like the lotus or the lilly. Once my lilly's get to the surface, I have 3 plants, they will flower almost everyday.

If you look at my member profile, you will see a pic of my cooter poking his head out of the lilly's. He is about the size of a 50 cent piece. He spent the winter in my son's room.

[LiquidBlue]

I have a little 30 gallon tub pond with natural filtration. I have two bog plants, a tropical lilly that is much too large for the pond, (I will be replacing it with a hardy lilly when its warm enough to move the tropical to a friends pond) and lots and lots of hornwort and anacharis (sp?). For livestock, I have a large apple snail and two common goldfish. Over the summer the goldfish come inside and bettas go into the pond. The bettas are great for keeping larva from growing in the pond.

[jenglish]

So, we have added a small upper pond (maybe 10 gallons) with a small waterfall so this will add some oxygenation. I am hoping to keep all equipment hidden. I am waiting for some warmer weather to get the area prepared. I am trying to decide what plantings I want inthe bed around it. I need to keep leaves out of the pond but I want some greenage around it as well.

[Siberman]

Ferns and mosses will appreciate the higher humidity levels. Depending on how much sun the area receives , I would also suggest impatiens , coleus and begonias (lower light ) or New Guinea impatiens and red "Angel Wing" begonias (more sun-tolerant).

[jenglish]

Originally Posted by Siberman

Ferns and mosses will appreciate the higher humidity levels. Depending on how much sun the area receives , I would also suggest impatiens , coleus and begonias (lower light ) or New Guinea impatiens and red "Angel Wing" begonias (more sun-tolerant).

I think it will be too dry and sunny for mosses, some ferns might take it. I was thinking of some nice groupings of japanes iris with a background of a Rhododendron, azalea or s butterfly bush. I had also considered some hardy bamboo plantings. To keep the dog back I think I may build a bamboo fence around the planted area.

[Mr.Peanut]

Originally Posted by LiquidBlue

Over the summer the goldfish come inside and bettas go into the pond. The bettas are great for keeping larva from growing in the pond.

How many betta's do you put in there? What do you do with them for the winter?

[Siberman]

Originally Posted by jenglish

I think it will be too dry and sunny for mosses, some ferns might take it. I was thinking of some nice groupings of japanes iris with a background of a Rhododendron, azalea or s butterfly bush. I had also considered some hardy bamboo plantings. To keep the dog back I think I may build a bamboo fence around the planted area.

Works for me. My pond is under two large oaks so I have Azaleas planted all around ( they do better in the shade down here) . You might want to plant your bamboo in pots sunk into the soil as it can be very invasive.

You could try one of those "invisible fences" (buried wire combined with a light-shock collar) to keep Fido away. You can use those small surveying flags to mark the area he should stay away from. That way all you'll have to do at your new place is set the flags where you don't want him to go.