sump/fuge question

[wingsfan]

i have two 20gal longs, i am gonna set one up as the main and the other as a sump/fug. anyone have any suggestions as to weather i should have the sump or the fug first on the inlet side? andalso any suggestions on how you would devide the tank would be appreciated.The tanks are 12in high, 12in. front to back and 30 in. long

[Buzz_Hog]

Depends on a couple of factors...

Are you looking to use the fuge as a pod factory?? If so, the fuge should gravity feed the main tank.... The sump can be a ditritus settling tank and pump up to the fuge and the fuge can dump into the tank...

[wingsfan]

the fuge and sump will be one, sitting under the main tank with a mag7 return pump

[thefatman]

hey bud, good to see ya still around, i was wondering how things were coming along with the 20. havent talked to ya since you brought me that sand.

to answer your question. if you are havign the sump and fuge in one, you wont really divide them from left to right, but rather from front to back. because you dont want as much flow through the fuge, as you do through the sump part. so you can divide it up so that your drain line splits in two. then havea ball valve on the portion flowing into the suge portion. that was you can limit flow into the fuge. everything else would flow into the sump portion.

you'll then have the fuge overflow into the sump portion. if you'll be putting a skimemr in it, it's gonna be close quarters, you may be limited to a hang on skimmer, and hang it on the sump. then you would have the fuge flow into the sump AFTER the skimemr intake.

however, it also depends what you plan to do with the fuge. if it will be for growing pods and other sand critters, then you'll want minimal flow through it. but if you are going to jsut use it for macroalge, for nutrient export, then i THINK you can have more flow through it. this woould also make it easier to setuyp the tank as well. because then you dont have to split it up as complicated, nor will you need to have separte lines into it.

basically you would have three sections, one for the tank to drain into, i would put the skimemr in this spot as well. then ext would be for the fuge section, and the last would be the smallest, and would hold the return pump, unless you are going with an external pump.

i guess a lot of it really depends on what you want to do with the fuge.

nice to see ya again!

[wingsfan]

thanks Jay, i was really lookin for a place to grow critters and a place to hide the heater and skimmer. thanks for the help and nice to here from you also. I've been reading post while still trying to learn, from what i have read you are a big celebrity on this site!!! well thanks and take care.

[Geoff]

Jay- i am so confused.

i think your pump is to much for what you want. it could be used for closed loop system or to power a skimmer, but as a return a little much. that is close to 35X circulation in a 20g!

do you have a skimmer yet? i think a hang-on would be your best bet unless your stand is large enough to handle an external skimmer off of the sump/refugium.

the idea of splitting the overflow to 2 seperate compartments is a good idea. i would divide the 20l in half. i would have the divider stop 2-3 inches from the top of the tank so that the water can overflow into the sump area. the sump area will contain your pump and heater. the water from the overflow will be split so that you can control the flow to the refugium section, while the rest goes into the sump. with half of the tank used for sump overflowing should not be a problem if the power goes out.

HTH,

G~

[Flatfish]

Second Geoff on the design. I have a 30g sump off my 100 that is devided into two sections: the first is the fuge, the second a sump. Here's what I did:

The first fuge section I put a bout 4-5" of live sand, some LR (for shelter), some algea, and a brittle star. The water moves slowly thru the first section due to the capacity. This gives a change for the detrius to fall out of the water onto the sand. The combo of the star, and LS takes care of the detrius. The algea helps with nutrient processing without cluttering up the main tank. There's a grow light that comes on at night that potentially will help the PH drop but I've not verified that.

The second chamber are baffles for bubble removal. the heater and a feed and return for an external skimmer. I dose in this area and since the evaporation shows here I put in a float switches for pump cut-off and fresh top-off. I don't get a lot of detrius collection here, the first chamber sees to that.

If your 20g is glass then to make a divider I'd do this:

Go to HD and pick up a sheet of clear acrylic (the window replacement stuff). It's not very thick, but the price is right. This stuff is easy to cut too. Cut yourself two or three peices that fit the tank for a divider like Geoff said 3-4" form the top. Get some acrylic cement and use it liberally to glue them together to make a thicker peice. Cut some one inch strips the same height and double their thickness too. Glue the strips flat to opposite sides of the sump inside to use for stops for the divider. Use the acrylic cement. Yes it works. Glue the partition to the stop strips. Silcone the three joints. It's not pretty, but just siliconing a partion will not hold up. Depending the acrylic you may need to go three thick to keep it from flexing too much. This is not the prettiest thing in the worled but it works well.

If your sump is acrylic you could do the same thing or spend more time getting a thicker peice to fit and directly glue it in. This is what I did on my second sump (my first was a 20G glass). The really nice thing about finding an acrylic box is the ability to drill holes at will and be crative with the plumbing. Other than that there's not a lot of difference.

Joe

[thefatman]

how thick does acrylic need to be to make the dividers in a sump, or better yet, to make a sump altogether?

lowes carries 1/4" thick acrylic, which is even thicker than the glass on the 29g sump i'm gonan use. but i think i'd like to make my own sump, so i can make it a lot bigger, and do more with it, without being cramped for space.

will 1/4" work?

i also have an acrylic shop locally with very good prices if i need to go larger.

at lowes, the 1/4" acrylic is a 2'x4' piece and it's only 37 dollars. i think the acrylic shop is even cheaper. and htey have 4x8 sheets.

lowes will cut for free. and the acrylic shop will cut for 25cents per cut, if the acrylic is bought from them. good thinig, as i really dont wanna mess with trying to cut acrylic yet.

[Krux]

if you can find a 6 inch footprint skimmer you can do a design kind of like this. get a piece of glass or acrylic that is 10" by 20" and a second piece that is 6" by 10 ". in the 6x10 cut a notch in the middle of the 6" side that is 1"X1".

then assemble as shown above. you will have a 6" compartment to fit your skimmer along one side, and at the end a 10" compartment to hold your return pump.

as mentioned above, just tee off your drain line, and ball vlave one side to feed the fuge. it will fill and spill over into the area with the return pump, so maximum pods will go directly to the tank, and the skimmer will be as far from the return pump as possible to minimize bubbles being sent back to tank.

[LongShot]

Jay,

While it might seem easy to build a sump/'fuge out of acrylic, there are a few caveats that I've learned about from trying to do just that myself.

The bottom line is producing absolutely water-tight joints with acrylic, and it isn't as straightforward as it seems. First off, cutting the stuff without chipping requires a saw blade specifically designed for acrylic. These are usually 60 - 80 tooth carbide blades for a 10" saw and they aren't cheap. Secondly, don't even consider it unless you've got a table saw or radial arm saw capable of making dead-nuts square cuts. My preference is a cabinet makers table saw. Assuming these requirements are met, you're still going to be left with edges that aren't smooth or true enough to create a near gapless butt joint, which you need for a water tight joint. The easiest way to get the kind of surface you need is to run the edges over a planer/jointer set to peal off just a hair at a time and then dress the resulting edges with some 200 grit sand paper.

Wherever possible, use the pre-thickened acrylic glue, available from places like TAP Plastics. What you're looking for is 100% contact with no air bubbles at all when edge meets surface. When you have to use the watery stuff, make sure capillary action draws it evenly into the joint, filling it completely. BTW, acrylic glues are both toxic and volitile, so do the work in a well ventilated area. Given the whole thing at least 24 hours to cure, preferably 48.

Finally, build the box in a jig. Don't even think about trying to do it freehand. The pieces should go together with an interferece fit, and some light clamping should be all that's needed to create optically clear joints.

I've trashed more than my share of sheet acrylic learning the above, but having done so, I can put together most any sort of sump/'fuge I want for about half what a custom builder will charge.

FWIW........

Bert

[thefatman]

and that advice bert, is exactly why my big tank, and coffee table will built from plywood

i have no desire to try to learn to be an acrylic perfectionist... too much work

thanks for the tips!