Need help with Aptasia

[Pamsreef]

Hi All,

Sorry so long.

I'm desperate and determined to resolve my Aptasia infestation. I need opinions. I have a 200 gallon reef tank with a 110 gallon refugium and a 90 gallon sump. The main tank has 2 hawkfish that would love to eat some peppermint shrimp and a foxface that doesn't like Copperbands (I tried it). The refugium currently has 2 peppermints and a nice healthy Copperband and I no longer have an aptasia problem there.

Here is my idea and let me know what you think. Approximately half of the rock has serious aptasias. What I've been doing is removing that rock and manually removing most of the aptasias (with Stop Aptasia) in a separate container out of the tanks then putting that rock in the refugium for the shrimp and CB. I plan to return the rock back to the main tank when the aptasias are gone. Not sure how long this will take (days or week(s)). I guess my main question is how the main tank would be effected without this rock in it? Also, I plan to remove the hawkfish and add peppermints to the main tank in the near future.

So basically I have a 200 gallon tank approximately half full of rock and I'm relocating half of that to the refugium. What do you think? Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Pam

[squid]

IMO as long as the rock is part of the system, you should have no problems.

[Mafiaman]

Have you tryed Kalkwasser paist??
( the Naturalists may begin flaming now)
I dont care I'm rid of them

[Junkzoo]

Ditto, Kalc syringe 'em,,,,, it will not get em all, but will help cut them back,,,,,, do it slow tho, as not to throw off water params,,,,
a lil in a glass,,,mixed to a slurry/paste,,,nuke it in the microwave, (careful it will heat up quick), put in a syringe, ,,,inject the bodies of the lil buggers,,,,you don't want to do too much too quick, take it over a period of time,,,,

[Monique]

I've heard that brushing the aptaisia with the Elegance coral kills it, stings them....

[MiddletonMark]

Yikes, don't mess with an elegance. They tend not to do very well in tanks recently; often wither and die within 6 months to a year.

For a hardy coral that will kill then [still, this is about the least preferable method by far IMO] is to use Hyndophora. It wins just about any coral battle, a wicked mean coral.

But first, try syringe-ing them with kalk. As said before, not too much in one day, make sure to clean it out after so it doesn't clog ... but it's 100% effective if you get it in the stalk/head with kalk slurry.

Second would be `natural' predators, but most peppermints will eat everything else first, and only the very small ones ... and copperbands can be finicky and IMO it's silly to harvest a fish out of the ocean that generally is not long lived in tanks just for this problem that kalk syringes can fix.

As for having fish and shrimp in a refugium ... IMO ... there goes all the micro-fauna. While eating aptasia, peppermints will also eat pods and other micro-life that I establish my refuge for. IMO there should be nothing more than snails in the 'fuge; unless you mean it solely for growing macroalgae. Just my opinion.

Anyway - use kalk syringes. Worked for me, worked for Junkzoo and most everyone else. Might take effort, a little time - but it's totally effective.

[JennM]

Pam, I concur with Lise's conclusion that as long as the rock is in the same system, it matters not "where" in the system it is. The copperband is a good way to get rid of them.

As for kalk paste - I never had a good time with that. I use Seachem Reef Complete in a syringe - works the same way (it's a liquid calcium) and it's easy to draw into the syringe, it's not caustic to inhale like Kalk powder is, and it's hard to overdose in a system.

Given the size of your system (and for those who don't know, I've seen it) I'd find it hard to believe that any fish or shrimp could wipe out the population of pods or other infauna.

IMO keep doing what you're doing.

Jenn

[tdwyatt]

Originally posted by mangomark
...Second would be `natural' predators, but most peppermints will eat everything else first, ... ...As for having fish and shrimp in a refugium ... IMO ... there goes all the micro-fauna. While eating aptasia, peppermints will also eat pods and other micro-life that I establish my refuge for. IMO there should be nothing more than snails in the 'fuge; unless you mean it solely for growing macroalgae...

hmmmm...


This would be contrary the experience of most aquarists, I have prolly 2 dozen peppermints in the refugium for the display tank left in Wellford, no problem at any time finding MULTITUDES of many different spp. of benthic crustaceans and worms. Never lost anything with the exception of some small Xenia and occasional yellow polyp. Zooanthids do well, Anthelia does well, in fact, the anemonea unfortunately do well also, and this system has stayed Aiptasia-free with the exception of some introduced a few years ago on a piece of new LR. The peppermint shrimp you need to get will be Lysmata wurdermanni, which is often confused with Rhynchocinetes durbanensis, which are often sold as Peppermint shrimp. The Lysmata wurdermanni is translucent pink with red stripes that almost blend in with the length of its body. The Rhynchocinetes durbanensis has a defined red strip with a white highlight to it, and has a "hump" on the upper surface in the area between the tail and the carapace.

Rhynchocinetes durbanensis (Camel shrimp)[/i]

Lysmata wurdermanni (Peppermint shrimp)

Whereas the Peppermint shrimp will eat preferentially aiptasia and generally clean up whatever opportunistic detrital foods (dead items and I am sure an occasional live small creature), they will seldom if at all eat those corals in our tanks we desire to keep (with the noted exception of some Pachyclavularia spp. ). The camel shrimps, on the other hand, are notorious for consuming just about any polyp that it can get to, with the unfortunate exception of Anemonea cf. majano. Most shrimp are lazy, and will eat even flake food if it is offered in preference to working to catch a meal, although Peppermints have some fascination with cleaning behavior and searching for dermal parasites on fishes. If the tank is adequately fed, I doubt that Lysmata spp. will hunt and capture healthy specimens of benthos crustaceans. Several of these shrimps in a refugium will produce spawn about once every 30 days if they are well fed, which makes for a great source of suspended food for the corals in the tank.

HTH

[Mafiaman]

I have tryed the peppermint rount they were in the tank for 3 weeks, Little tiney peppermints. Like I was told to get the thought being babbys need to eat more, Well they never touched the aptaisia but the very night after I put a plate coral in the tank they all came out and killed the plate coral mowed it down like grass. Yes they were peppemints not camels.

So I dont recomend them. With any natural methods you are go for 50/50 at best.
We even had one lfs tell my wife raccoon butterflys were better than copperbanded ( I wont say there name ) so she tryed it well one more disaster.

But using kalwasser the only losses we've had are the aptaisia.

[Pamsreef]

Thanks for the responses. For what it's worth, there have been no more aiptasia in the refugium since adding the Peppermints and Copperband.

Thanks again,

Pam

[Joel]

Anemonea cf. majano

will a copperband eat these anenomes? I was told by the lfs I bought it from last week that it would eat them. The copperband looks just as good or better than when I got him a week ago, is very active, and appears to be well fed even though I don't notice any decline in the majano anemones.

[tdwyatt]

Originally posted by Joel
will a copperband eat these anenomes? I was told by the lfs I bought it from last week that it would eat them. ...I don't notice any decline in the majano anemones.

It depends on how far along in the book theCopperband is...

Supposedly they will, although I have had them in a tank with the Majano and I still have the anemonea in plague proportions in that particular system, although they did clean up every feather duster worm in the tank in the process... ... Racoon butterflys will definitely eat them, problem is they will eat most other polyps in the tank as well, and DEFINITELY are NOT reef safe.

[Joel]

And so it goes I have another expensive poop factory that serves no purpose other than making me do water changes and cleaning the skimmer cup. Thats OK it is a pretty poop factory.

[MiddletonMark]

Originally posted by JennM
Given the size of your system (and for those who don't know, I've seen it) I'd find it hard to believe that any fish or shrimp could wipe out the population of pods or other infauna.

IMO keep doing what you're doing.

I'd agree with that. I don't think in the main tank fish or inverts are a bad idea at all ... but I always considered a refugium a place where you wanted to produce extra microfauna/pods.

Not that peppermints are such huge hunters of them ... but they will eat some. Talking to Anthony Calfo this last weekend, his suggestion was that it was unwise to have such inverts in a refugium. While they mate and produce plankton a couple times a year, they also consume a fair amount of small fauna - that it goes against the point of refugia to have any kind of predator in there. Yeah, they'll eat other things, but nothing to exclusion. Peppermints aren't a huge predator, but they don't eat detritus alone ...

For this case, it's probably the best suggestion as they can't live in the main tank. And just moving the rock down there until the aptasia are gone seems a wise choice. Doing the same thing myself - with a pair of emeralds in the sump and moving a piece or two of rock with valonia down there for them to consume. Not as effective as hand-picking it all off ... but it's nice having someone else on my team.

But I'd never put them in my fuge. IMO, nothing more than snails there [the only 100% herbivores I know]

[Pamsreef]

I guess I don't have a typical refugium (did at one time). The main purpose for mine is to grow caulerpa. My main tank and sump is full of tiny critters (pods, tiny stars, etc.). The refugium is home to more timid creatures that you may never see in a busy main tank.

On another note, I kinda like the look of the main tank with less rock, providing that the rock is doing just as much good in the refugium.

Thanks everyone. Keep the ideas coming.

Pam