Treating Ich

[aj]

OK, I've had a reef tank for a long time... Water quality is fine. Temp is OK a bit on the high side, but OK.

I keep getting this Ich infestation?

Is is a really bad thing to treat with Copper? Copper seams to be the only thing that worked for me in the non-reef tanks.

There's also a Copper Safe product which claims to be invert safe?

Any ideas?
I'm really having bad time... BTW I've been a reef/marine hobbiest for almost 10 years now! So I have experience in that sense... I know Copper is a No-No. But I almost do not have any other solution!

It's killed many fish already, except for one which was fine all along (I guess it had immunity) but I let the tank rest for over 2 months actually almost 3 months with no fish except that one. Plus I had a UV filter running all that time! As soon as I added some fish!

Episode II Return of the Ich!

What do I do, please let me know ASAP since I don;t have much time before the fish start to die on me again!

As for Corals, now I only have some mushrooms... Haven't had any good corals since the last infestation! And I'm even thinking of restarting the tank from scratch if nothing works

SOS, calling all cars...



Also I've tried the garlic thing before to no avail! I can try it this time, but this ich seems to be resistant to anything except killing my fish

[Casey]

I would set up a hospital tank asap and transfer what you want to keep and remove all live rocks to some kind of holding container and break it down and start the tank over I would never treat a reef tank with copper you will ruin the tank it will contaminate everything.hths

[dark horge]

Hi aj,


Please list the affected fish, as some are hard to administer garlic to.

Also, describe HOW you tried the garlic thingy, and HOW it 'didn't work'.

Lastly, decribe the symptoms ---there may be something else besides the 'ich'.

------------

Garlic (when used properly) can effect a relief from the symptoms, essentially freeing the fish of the parasite, though said parasite (having fled the garlic-fed fish) likely remains in the system.

There is really little other way to treat Cryptocaryosis (ich) in the display without adversely affecting many small, creatures in the sand and rock (bacteria included) that are vital to the reef tank.

Hyposalinity is the only proven and effective treatment for ich,
but requires the use of a treatment tank: absolutely nothing from the display can be used on, in or near this treatment tank, except the fish being treated.

You can remove all fish from the tank and immerse them in a freshwater bath (with matching pH and temp as the display's!) for 5-15 minutes. This will cause the detachment or (less likely) outright destruction of attached parasites and cysts. The bathwater obviously is to be discarded.

Then the fish get relocated to the saltwater treatment tank (again, same pH and temp). The fish will stay there for 14 to 72 days (depending on which author you believe and how paranoid you are, hehe), and the completely-fishless display is freed of Cryptocaryon irritans (the 'ich' parasite') by virtue of starvation.


Now, theoretically, garlic can do something like that.
If all the fish in the tank eat enough garlic, then none of the parasites can stay on them, and strvation is accomplished in-tank. More likely, the fish are given enough of a breathing spell to build up their natural reistance to the disease..


hth.

[aj]

As for the garlic, I crushed some garlic in a little water, and then got the fish some food and poored it on them and around them while eating. Plus I kept the crushed galick in the tank in a net.

All my fish are tangs

Yellow which is the only survivor from the last time.
Naso (not verified)
Blue (infected)
Powder Blue (infected)
Purple (infected)
Flame Angel (not showing any)

They are white spots that show dark spots on the naso.

I know the water is infected and has the disease in it now... What do you recommend?

Thank you.

Save My Fish Please

Also, my hospital tank is 20g only. I don't know how long all of them can survive in there with the bacteria and checmical change.

[dark horge]

Garlic is best FED to the fish.
If the fish is a strict carnivore, then it may be a challenge to incorporate frsh garlic into a prepared food it can eat. As tours are tangs, you should have an easy time.

If feeding them garlic fails to provide relief,
Your treatment tank won't cut it.

I would take out the fish, hypo until there are no visible spots left, and THEN keep them in clean, aerated buckets with a chunk of new-bought LR each for biofiltration, light feedings (with garlic), until the tank is thoroughly overhauled, cleaned and set up again.

I would place the old sand and LR in a separate bunch of aerated buckets, and store them that way for a 72 days before thinking about re-introducing them to the tank.

There may be other ideas...

[Casey]

darks sugestions sound good to me I think you are at a point where fast and immediate action is required if you want to save any fish

[Spanky]

Plus I had a UV filter running all that time!

aj

What size tank is this?
What's your total water volume (less rocks, sand, including sump, etc)?
What brand UV?
What wattage?
How old are your bulbs?

In my opinion, keeping this amount and combination of tangs will almost make having a UV a necessity. Especially if you don't stay right on top of things.

Jerel

[aj]

Spanky,

It's a 60g Reef, I would say 30-40g Water. UV brand I cannot remember but I think starts with a MegaWatt something. 8 Watt (Not that big) But the water goes through twice around the bulb for extra sterilization. The bulb is brand new. I actually changed it when the outbreak started and all of my old fishies died

I don't mind adding another UV filter, I even got an Ozone reactor (god old Ebay), but I don't know much on how to set it up
The brand is: Ozotech 250 mg/hr Aquarium Ozone Generator. But I think I need a reactor chamber and maybe a PH computer etc. etc...

[Mrs Smith]

Hi there,

When considering Ich outbreaks, there is often some underlying stressor that is compromising the fish. While tangs are very prone to Ich infections, your setup is most likely contributing a great deal of stress.

I don't know how large your fish are, but all of those (with the exception of the Flame Angel) do get quite large, and with that many in that small a tank, you're very likely to end up with territory battles and anxiety. Most people would recommend one tang maximum in a tank that size. While there is always someone out there who manages to keep the impossible, it doesn't sound like it's working out very well for you.

I wish you luck, but it's going to be difficult to save them. Keep brainstorming, and we'll try to help, but you may be faced with having to choose one or two and find other homes for the rest. Horge's plan sounds like your best option at the moment...

Danielle

[aj]

As for the size they are small size (not tiny but small 3-4 inches) , and for the fights, yes there were fights when they were 1st introduced in the tank a couple of weeks ago. I added the new fish. My main concern is that the ich has always been in the water and I have treated with GreenX many times to no avail

I'm so depressed that I'm thinking of restarting the tank many times... Note I have done that twice in the past couple of years due to ich infestations, but last time I did not have a hospital/small tank I can save my fish in. This time I do, but it's not large enough I think. I may be able to place them there for a few days. and treat them with copper since it IS the best solution I've ever seen/experienced. My small tank does not have any LR or any inverts.

[Casey]

to many tangs in the tank means stress all the time

[Spanky]

your setup is most likely contributing a great deal of stress.

You bet, that initial in-house fighting has manifested itself into "stress".

aj, probably the best advise is to pick one favorite tang and find homes for the rest. Even try to take them back to the LFS for credit if you can.

I case you're interested in the UV, here's the formula that's worked the best for us. It works even better the more in tank circulation you have too.

System volume X 4-5 turnovers per hour = UV rated to kill "parasites" (not algae, bacteria, etc) at that flow rate.

40gal X 5 = 200 gph flow rate for UV

That would be about a 25w or 40w UV depending on the quality.

HTH
Jerel

[mikeMersot]

If fish are healthy and strong in general then can fight off ich by themselves or wont get it at all, my hippo tang used to get it all the time when I first got him(hippos are very apt to get ich), but he was always able to fight it off without medication, after he got "settled in" he never got it again. None of my other fish were ever infected. If so many fish keep getting it and none or nearly none are able to fight it off, then I would guess that something in the environment is causing it. In my opinion it is almost certainly the huge bioload and large number of territorial fish, causing a lot of stress on the inhabitants. What kind of paramaters does your water have??

[Alice]

I have to agree, too many fish that need free swimming room in a small tank is the problem, the symptom is the ich. Now you have it breeding out of control in your tank. You may want to do a little research on the life cycle of the parasite, it will give you some insight on how to combat this problem in future.

What Horge has laid out is probably the only solution for your fish right now. Getting them healthy if you can and then finding new homes for most of them will be the most conscientious thing for you to do.

I had an ich outbreak in my tank once that I just could not get a handle on. I pulled all the fish from the system (you can't leave any fish in the tank for the parasite to host upon) for 6 weeks. That was a long time to maintain two Q tanks but I would have rather erred on the side of caution than to have had to do it again.

Good luck; I hope it all ends well.

Alice

[aj]

Well I got it under control...

I bought a 36W UV filter! I think that did it! No more ick!


Now I only turn it on when I introduce new fish to the tank... works great!

Thanks all...

Here's an FYI which I learned the hard way.

Purple Tangs do not mix with Yellow tangs (they have the same shape) You can add a Naso, Powder Blue, Blue and a Yellow tang in the same tank. They may fight a little bit, but genrally speaking they will adapt since they do not have the same shape.
Purple and Powder Blue do not mix that well unless you have 2 timmid ones. Also a Blue tang can be aggressive sometimes...
So having 1 dominant tang is OK and Naso can mix with any tangs.