Please Help!! Bicolour Angle In Trouble!!

[dermp]

It just happened like over a matter of minutes!! My angle fish was perfectly fine and all of sudden when I came in the room it was going around in circles?? Now its on the bottom of the tank lieing flat!! I did a test on everything and its the same Ammonia is 0.20 the ph is 8.0 the nitrites is 0 and the nitrate is about 0.20 whats happening to it!!!!!! Please help! Could it have bitten the Manjano and is posioned?? Or is it dieing can anyone tell me!!

[Chip Wick]

I'm not an expert, but the most likely cause is the ammonia level in my opinion. You might want to mix up some clean sea water and acclimate your fish to that and then keep it in a seperate, smaller container with mega-frequent water changes unless you can find another tank to put it in. I don't know if it's too late, but it seems to me that by the time it gets this far, it's not good. Best of luck.

[Alice]

I'm sorry to hear about your fish but Bicolors are notoriously hard to keep, unfortunately.

I don't think the anemone poisoned it, even if the fish had nibbled on it.

How long has the fish been in your tank and how long has your tank been up and running?

Sometimes shipping stress or capture procedures, especially cyanide or ammonia burn, can take a little while to catch up to them.

Alice

[thefatman]

if i recall, this is the 20g tank that is only a week old? and inherited lots of corals and fish from a friend?

if so, i would say it's the ammonia and water quality, not hte manjano.

you really need to get that fish, and all of them out, and back to the lfs or a friend, until the tank is done cycling.

i think i recall someone mentioning that everything may SEEM ok, for the moment, but when it happens, it happens. Water quality is extremely important, as is a properly established tank, before adding livestock. MUCH moreso than in freshwater.

please dont think we're being hard on you, jsut trying to save you from more heartache in the future. it's unbeliveably important to take your time and learn before jumping in.

this is what doug meant by jumping in to your neck

i'm sorry about the fish, and hopefully you will be able to save it.

[sally]

Ditto to what the fatman said. You really need to get those fish out and let the tank cycle. From what I recall you have quite a few fish in the tank for only being a week old. Please let the tank cycle and then slowly add fish. The days of using a fish to cycle a tank is over. The fish do suffer when they go through the process of cycling I think the ammonia has a "burn" effect on them.

[thefatman]

actually, if i'm remembering all my readings correctly. the ammonia, as well as nitrItes. are posioness to the fish, internally. sort of like us trying to breath ammonia fumes all day. which is why the waste is ammonia.

the nitrAtes, are what cause the burn, and can literally burn the fins off the fish.

of course, i'm happy to stand corrected if i got this mixed up.

[Doug1]

Detectable ammonia readings are a no no, the 0 nitrite and .20/ nitrate have me concerned as to accuracy of the test protocols. Tank is too new and to small

[dermp]

Well the bicolour died last night

Thanks to all who have been trying to help me. I since did a 20% water change added cycle, aqua clear and added a 301 power head with ammonia rocks and filter to try and keep the ammonia as low as possiable!

[Mrs Smith]

Hey,
I'm really sorry to hear about your angel. Hang in there, keep doing water changes (and lots of them) and hopefully things will pull through.

Welcome to the heartbreak of saltwater. Things will be touch and go for awhile, but hang in there. Keep a close eye on those corals - and if there's any way you can get them into a seperate tank while yours finishes cycling, they'll be a lot happier.

Danielle

[thefatman]

if you dont pull them out, the angel wont be the last.. i hat e to say that, but i fear it's true.

also, ammonia rocks?!?!?!? are you SURE you bought ammonia rocks that say safe for saltwater? i've personally never seen them for salt water before, only for freshwater. and they all say NOT for use in saltwater aquariums. something to do with the salt i assume.

check the box, or list hte brand/name here for an evaluation. i fear that those ammo rocks wil ldo you more harm than good.

adding aqua clear, will not solve any problems. the tank is still cycling, and as soon as the AC wears off the water will get cloudy again, as it doesnt solve the problem, it merely covers it up. kind of like taking cold medicine. soon as the meds wear off, the cold is still there.

the root problem is that the tank is only a week and a half old now, and nowhere near being ready for inhabintants, let alone, that many inhabs.

and listen to danielle, since you DO have the livestock in there, so soon. you are gonna have to keep doing water changes, in order to save as much as possible from death. probably 10% daily in my opinion. but keep in mind everything is under an extreme amount of stress right now. so they arent happy. and when fish/corals get stressed, they die.

jsut keep asking questions, everyone is here to help and make sure you save as much as possible and havea rewarding experience for years to come.

[dermp]

I didn't realize that your not suppose to use ammonia rocks in your filter what does it do to the saltwater? Also what do you use to remove ammonia from your tank??

[thefatman]

remove ammonia... that's what the cycle is for. the ammonia is removed by the natural bacteria that grows in the tank..

short verison:

ammonia enters tank through fish waste, decaying food, etc..
bacteria grow which feed on the ammonia. they expel nitrIte as waste.
new bacteria grow which feed on the nitrIte. they expel nitrAte as waste.
new bacteria grow which feed on the nitrAte. they expel nirtrogen as waste.

this is why the cycle is so important, it gives ALL the bacteria a chance to develope. once they are there, the cycel is never ending. from ammonia to nitrogen. ammonia is ALWAYS introduced by fish waste, decaying food and what not, and feeds the cycle.

i'm not sure what the ammo rocks do to salt water. i just know that every one i have ever seen clearly says not for use on saltwater. which leads me to belive it has something to do with the salt.

perhaps the salt confuses the rock, and it doesnt absorbe the ammonia. or perhaps it also pulls the salt out of the water. not sure exaclty, i jsut know you dont do it.

i'll see if i can find anything about it for ya. in the meantime, i would simply pull them out, and do another water change, as you should do one daily for a while. normally you wouldnt do them daily, but since you added livestock so soon, i think it's gonna be necessary to save any other livestock.

[TerryB10]

Going in circles is an indication of poisoning. Sometimes a toxin in the water will cause fish to swin in figure eights. I call these death loops. Any ammonia is too much for deilcate fish. When people with less than a year's experience attempt angels, butterflys and tangs they usually die within a few months. I would encourage you to spend more money on good books and magazine articles than on animals for the nest six months. Most people don't want to be that patient and that is why most of thier fish die. Knowledge and experience are needed to keep delicate fish like these. I have been in this hobby thirty years. I can tell you that the two most important things that you can do are read everything you can get your hands on about the hobby and QUARANTINE. Research all animals needs completely BEFORE you purchase them. Invest in yourself and get more books and quarantine.
Use only well aged and aerated salwater for water changes. Raw SW is very irritating to delicate gill tissues. Make a water change and see if you can find Poly Filter. It is a chemical filtration pad that removes ammonia, etc.

[Buzz_Hog]

READ, READ, READ.......

Search everything you can find about cycling a tank... I've mentioned the process several times through various threads... do a search for tank cycle and if ya can't find it, let me know and I'll gladly help ya out.... Tank cycling is one of the most basics about fishkeeping nevermind keeping saltwater tanks...

With this said, this seems like it's your first serious tank.... THis hobby is great, but it's a hobby involving science... You need to research and be sure of what your doing before you do it, otherwise it can be disasterous...

I have some friends that are supposedly high priest and priestess Pagans, (yes, I know... but Paganism is based on life and earth being God or something like that... ) and I explained to them about my tanks that, "the inhabitants of my tanks are totally dependant upon my decisions... everything I decide to do, wether educated or not, determines their fate".... They said, that must make you pretty powerful.... I said, "No, it makes me a servant to them and I assumed the responsibility of their lives"....

It's your responsibility to care for those fish... If the Budhist are right, then you may one day be a fish in your fish's care...

(just telling it like it is....)