Sponsor Our Community
Go Back   The Reef Tank > The Reference Place > Algae ,good and bad > Hitchiker, Pests, ID and warnings > Diseases,Fish


Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-11-2001, 11:09 AM   #16
Brooke
Administrator
 
Brooke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Medicine Lake, MN
Posts: 3,021
Images: 33
Oodley..this thread got away from me...is the Skilter what you are using for a skimmer?? If so, it's time to upgrade. If you don't have a whole lot of $$ to spend, get either a Prizm or a BakPak.
A good skimmer will do wonders for removing crud from your water..which could help your algae problem.

Kranny-
If you set your tank up correctly, have a little luck, and loooooots of patience, there is no reason to battle ick. Most of us are pretty good at the first, get lucky with the second..and are really bad about the third .

Brooke
Registered Members don't see these ads. Register now it's free!
__________________
Be kind to your reef! Research care and compatibility of animals before purchasing.<br><a href="http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.php?threa
Brooke is offline  
Old 10-11-2001, 11:30 AM   #17
Kranny
Plankton
 
Kranny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 33
hehe...I understand that Brooke!
Kranny is offline  
Old 10-11-2001, 03:56 PM   #18
tdwyatt
senior member
 
tdwyatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Walnut Grove, SC, USA
Posts: 15,170
Images: 46
Hmmmmm... Interesting thread, almost like a detective novel...

I read that you have an algae outbreak, how bad is it, and do you have macroalgae as well? If you have a big filamentatious algal outbreak and macros, keep in mind that during the night when the lights are not providing energy, the plants that normally produce O2 are now consuming oxygen at prodigious rates. If your circulation is not vigorous, and your temp is up, then your dissolved oxygen levels will drop low enough to stress, even kill you fishes. The most active fishes will be affected first, followed by the more sedentary fishes depending on their rates of oxygen consumption. Blennies, dragonets, and other inactive fishes will be the last to succumb to oxygen-related stresses. This drop in oxygen levels may not actually kill the fish, although it will allow opportunistic infections (like ick) to gain the upper hand in the constant battle with fish immunology. O2 deficiencies lead to decreased appetite and lower energy states, with corresponding drops in metabolic rates. All these then start a cascade of events that compound each other, leading to decreases in the fishes' immune status to pathogens that normally might not even affect them. I would be interested to see how low your O2 levels drop during the night. You might try to borrow an oxygen sensor (Pinpoint makes one, I believe they are around the $250 US price range)

In the ocean, you occasionally will see eutropic effects (in areas where there is poor current and water exchange) on fishes on a large scale, especially in bays and shallow inlets where solar heating during the day and heavy organic loads lead to heavy algal growth and elevated nocturnal water temperatures. The oxygen levels in such bays can sometimes drop to near zero, leading to mass fish kills or to outbreaks of opportunistic infections in populations of fishes in these environments. You would think that this would be especially true in estuary areas, but tidal flushing along with the influx of fresh (no salt) water seems to make this less of a problem in these habitats. You might hit up Chris or Jerel for more info on this, but I would think that this is the crux of your problem.

Getting the O2 levels up at night, by removing sources of DOC's that can be reduced by oxygen (and thus consuming oxygen), removing as much of the algae as possible, switching to RO/DI water to reduce the nutrients available to the algae, skimming 24/7 for a while (or at least at night, this will remove the DOC's and oxygenate your water), running a reverse photoperiod refugium in your sump (helps to export excess nutrients as well as stabilize your pH and increase your nocturnal dissolved oxygen levels) and increasing your surface and deep current will help mitigate some of these causes for both algal growth and decreased nocturnal O2. It might help to reduce your temp some (I don't know where you are on this, but staying no higher than 80F for a while will keep your oxygen saturation levels higher than those at 84F, remember, higher temps = lower O2 saturation) I normally recommend higher temps for the reefs*, but not while there is a possible oxygen level problem.

I hope that this is at least something to go on now, Everyone here has made good recommendations on the issues brought up. In tanks with heavy algal growth, many nutrients are locked up in the algae, as well as their wasteful consumption of nutrients that could otherwise be used in creatures/organisms that we WANT to cultivate. It is very difficult to rely on water testing to see what the problems are when the nutrients are locked up in the algal biomass. If you have algal biomass, then you have water problems, and switching to RO/DI will at least remove the nutrient source (tap water). Might check this site:< http://www.waterdata.com/ > to see if your municipality has it's water quality listed. surprisingly enough, some local water supplies provide a large amount of nitrate as well as phosphate for algal growth.

* Interestingly enough, temps in the Indonesian oceans vary based on seasonal upwelling from 82F to 85F, as opposed to the waters around Hawaii, where the temps vary from 78F to 82 F, but then again, that is another discussion (heh heh heh!!!)
__________________
Tom <"))))>(
(TDWyatt)
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -Plato
tdwyatt is online now  
Old 10-11-2001, 05:09 PM   #19
OodleyBoodely
Registered User
 
OodleyBoodely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Azle, Tx
Posts: 1,544
Images: 2
Brooke, Yea, unfortunately I'll be stuck with the Skilter for a little while longer. When I can swing the upgrade, I'll probably go to a Bakpak (unless I win the lotto, )

Tom, Wow! That was quite an informative essay! Thanks. Although I don't have the testers that you suggested, I have taken steps to increase gas exchange through more surface agitation and circulation. I do have a refugium that I keep on an opposite lighting cycle from the main tank. I have removed as much of the algae from the main tank as I can, by scrubbing the rock with a toothbrush, but still need to tackle the refugium. The main tank already looks better, and the 'moss' does not appear to be growing back as quickly as befor. The temperature of the tank is set at 80 but fluctuates as high as 82 -84 by the end of the day. I don't think this will fluctuate as much now that summer is over and I can maintain cooler room temps(even with airconditioning, it is hard to keep the indoor temps under 84 in the summer).

Thanks again for the replies!
OodleyBoodely is offline  
Old 10-26-2001, 03:37 PM   #20
OodleyBoodely
Registered User
 
OodleyBoodely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Azle, Tx
Posts: 1,544
Images: 2
Update: I've been strong and have not purchased any new fish---It's been hard, after all, I am a true addict. Instead I bought two star polyp rocks and two pieces of lr. He he! (I just can't go cold turkey and I was in severe withdrawal)

Still have the Oscellaris clowns but the female is not recovering-she may have permanent gill damage as she is still gasping and hanging at the surface. She is not eating and is wasting away. I fear there is no hope for her. The smaller clown looks good and is eating well. I think he has made a full recovery.

My blue gudgeon found a hole and committed carpet hari-kiri.

My mandarin died mysteriously. She appeared healthy and was eating well-found her floating.

Male firefish has not changed-still stays on the bottom hiding and does not eat. The female appears/acts healthy and eats well.

Scooter is still doing very well, in fact, I think he has been watching the clowns because there are times when I would swear he was begging at the front glass.

So, what now? I don't intend to purchase more fish for awhile. Any ideas on the female clown and the male firefish?
OodleyBoodely is offline  
Old 10-26-2001, 04:10 PM   #21
dbman
Goldmember
 
dbman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 84
I would bet a very large sum of money that your water supply is at fault. I went through a period in my 55 that I couldn't keep ANYTHING alive; was skimming, had what SHOULD be a very stable system. But I was getting R/O from supermarket dispenser and there was SOMETHING in there toxic enough that it stressed the fish and made them vulnerable to infection.

I changed my water source to high quality RO/DI, did a few 20G water changes and haven't lost a fish since then. There is stuff in tapwater you woudn't imagine, and may not be able to test for, that it takes REALLY good filtration to get it safe.

Its worth whatever it costs; I was lucky, I couldn't afford an RO unit but there was a WATER store in a strip mall nearby where I could get really good RO/DI for like $0.18/gal if I bought like 100g card in advance.

I honestly think if you're having unexplained trouble in your tank you can't try to trace it to any particular infection or parasite because the only reason the fish would succumb to such an infection en masse is if there's another issue that is weakening them. Try your best to source some high quality water or take advantage of some of the deals going on for home RO units now.
dbman is offline  
Comparison Shopping
TetraPond Barley & Peat Extract 16.9oz

As low as $8

at 15 sellers

Lifegard Sea Horse 1/2 HP Pump

As low as $240

at 6 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Current USA 10 Replacement Cord for SunPaq Retrofit Compact Fluorescent Lights

As low as $24

at 3 sellers

Tomato Clownfish

As low as $11

at 16 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Ocean Nutrition Atisons Betta SPA 125ml

As low as $3

at 8 sellers

Eibli Angelfish

As low as $20

at 10 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

San Francisco Bay Brand Brine Shrimp Eggs 2.75 oz.

As low as $20

at 7 sellers

Aquarium Pharmaceuticals GH & KH Test Kit

As low as $5

at 25 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Aquarium Pharmaceuticals FilStar Nitra-Zorb

As low as $7

at 18 sellers

Hydor Koralia Wavemaker Controller 2-Way Basic for Controllable Koralia Pumps

As low as $240

at 8 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

CPR BIO-BALE Biological Filter MediaMedium White - 1 gallon35sf

As low as $7

at 3 sellers

Pentair Aquatics Rainbow Lifegard O-ring For QL and AF Caps

As low as $1

at 7 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

Fluval 304 404 Ribbed Tubing

As low as $14

at 3 sellers

Warner Marine Research ReefPure AcclimMAX 4oz

As low as $6

at 3 sellers

Members with more than 50 posts don't see this bar

 

Tags
internal parasite , kole tang , malachite green , maroon clown , maroon clown pair , mower blenny , neon gobies , polyp rock , power head , quarantine tank , reverse photoperiod , scooter blenny , sponge filter , sponge filters , star polyp , star polyp rock



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Sitemap:1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196
Sponsor Our Community

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Our lawyer tells us that, by pressing the "New Thread" or "New Reply" button, you acknowledge that the opinions and information expressed in your article are yours alone and not those of thereeftank.com, dba The Reef Tank. Further, you agree to indemnify The Reef Tank, its moderators, administrators and agents from any and all liability which may arise as a result of your article. (C)opyright 2006 TheReefTank.com
 
close
Sign up for free and join one of the largest communities of saltwater aquarists!
Our members will be glad to help you with anything you need!

Join over 30,000 TRT members!

Email

Email Confirm Email
Username
Password Confirm Password

I agree to the website rules