Nutrient Question / Predator Enigma

[Moloch]

Hi All - looking for some ideas regarding a phenomenon thats happened about six times now.
First, I had a very aggressive serpent star in my 75g tank. Ate one royal gramma, two gobies and was getting ready for more. Told the guy at the LFS and he said wasn't the first time he'd heard it. Yanked out the serpent star and brought it back to LFS.

And then there was one.

So, think I've got a freak serpent star and blam, other day, he wastes my purple basslet and chows him down. This morning, find him inside my flame scallop.

Now, I've got a fairly healthy bioload in my tank.

75 g bow front.

2229 Eheim wet/dry
skimmer
802 powerhead (400gph)
55 lbs LR (and building)

4-5 snails
10 tiny blue hermit crabs
1 soon to be gone serpent star
1 plate coral
1 green eyed star polyp
two feather dusters

about 8 fish totalling 14" in length.

Now, I'm wondering, am I lacking enough bottom deitritus for the serpent star? I'm told the shrimp, serpent star,feather dusters, polyps and plate coral don't need to be fed!?! I've still used some liquid invert feeder once a week, very small amount. My great little cleaner shrimp will jump onto my hand and take a krill from me.

Like, is my tank so clean and balanced that there's no food to scavenge and no DOC for the dusters?

Thanks for your input!

[Ninong]

Welcome to The Reef Tank, Moloch! http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Very few sea stars are reef safe. Here are a couple that are reef-safe: Blue Linkia (Linckia laevigata) and the Little Red Starfish (Fromia elegans).

Most sea stars are ravenous omnivores that will eat anything and everything, including your fish. Sounds like you might have a good sized green brittle star. They are very efficient predators and interesting to observe (as long as they're not eating your fish).

HTH http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/smile.gif

Ninong

P.S. - The two that I recommended feed on detritus, surface microbes and algae.

------------------
Irrational Exuberance!

[This message has been edited by Ninong (edited 08-11-2000).]

[horge]

A fave strategy of some larger 'serpent' stars is to position themselves within a rock refuge, prop themselves up on their arms to closely stick to the rock cave's roof.

When some poor victim goes into the cave to sleep, the star corkscrews down, its arms forming a 'jailbar' barrier, pinning the hapless prey.

And then the feasting begins.
http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/eek.gif http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/eek.gif http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/eek.gif http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/eek.gif

[Doug1]

Moloch, welcome to thereeftank http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
I like the big brittle stars though they require a lot more than just scavenging for detritous. I always made a point to feed mine extra treats and had no fish predation problems. It sounds to me like they are Hungry

------------------
Reef as if your life depended on it, yours might but the sea's does
Doug moderator TheReefTank

[Moloch]

Thanks for all the advice!

God I love this hobby!

Didn't really want to get rid of it as it was a beautiful red and black striped one that wasn't afraid to come out and give a show, always wandering around the tank, hiding in the rock.

I actually saw this behaviour of hiding in the top of one of my many portals through the live rock, it was close to bedtime to, as the tank is on a timer and they all know bedtime (I realize everyone has a timer haha) and I figured he was getting ready to waste someone again!

So, into the freezer, tore open the wife's thing of shrimp cocktail for our dinner party the next day, cut him a piece and gave it to him.

Ate it, then ate another, then ate another, then went away.

Whew!

Fish OK...

Wife pissed...

Thank God I did the right thing!

Thanks for the advice guys! I'm still a newbie (7 mnths) but starting to realize anything with a mouth should be fed!

[Ninong]

Here's an interesting variation on the old starfish entrapment technique I read about this morning on another board. This guy posted that he had already lost three small percula clowns, and each time he discovered his chocolate chip starfish chomping on the carcass, but he assumed the clowns died of other causes and the choc chip was just cleaning up the remains...

Until he happened by the tank late yesterday before lights out and found the choc chip lying on its back on the sand pretending to be an anemone with the newest small clown hovering dangerously over it. It finally dawned on him what had happened to the three previous clowns, and he immediately removed the choc chip from the tank.

N I N http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/eek.gif N G

------------------
Irrational Exuberance!

[Alice]

WOW! That's interesting...and a little scary. Nasty little buggers.

------------------
Reefkeeping is my life; I can't afford a hobby too!

[Mermaid]

Ninong,

Awesome story. Interesting deduction by the guy, and certainly understandable for him to conclude that when looking for a culprit. I would have to wonder at the accuracy of the guy's assessment of the situation though. We had a Chocolate Chip for over 10 years, and it never ate fish, never layed on its back, or ever even moved fast enough to capture a fish. Also, they eat by extruding their stomachs to digest food, which is extremely slow, and their tentacles are not that strong that I would think a healthy fish could not get away. People give Choc Chip Seastars such a bad name, but I never had problems with mine, with many corals and many fish in his tank for the decade we had him. I think he might be attributed bad qualitied like his cousin, the Green Serpent Stars. However, they are so different, they have fast movement, and are built for predation with their nimble arms and sneaky snaking movements. I would not attribute the Chocolate Chip faking being an anemone as possible even, since that would require thought, and I doubt such a simple animal could plan such behavior. This comes from someone who believes fish have memory, so I am no animal basher. I just think people often attribute human qualities to their animals and every now and then it is not realistic. I wish we had some more info on his other tank animals.

[horge]

To be fair, the fish-eaters are primarily those bad boys of Ophir --the more robust serpent stars.

Protoreaster spp. (including the 'choco chip') are more known as devourers of molluscs and other sessile invertebrates.

'Choco chips' are interesting creatures, and are no more evil than some head of coral (which itself does a serious number on poor innocent plankton and bacteria http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/wink.gif ).

[tdwyatt]

not on topic, but I know that fish have memoriy, albiet short 3 second ones, I have heard them in the tank in the morning, especially the moron clown say the following (I feed flake in the morning... good stuff in the evening):
"Aw MAN, NOT FLAKE AGAIN, (3 SEC) flake flake flake!!!!!! (3 more sec) I am so tired of fl.... FLAKE FLAKE FLAKE!!!!!!!!! (3 MORE SEC) SURELY tOM YOU CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING BESIDES... more flake GOD i LOVE IT!!!! mORE FLAKE PLLLEEEEZZZZZEEEEEEE!!!!!"

OK, so maybe I didn't ACTUALLY hear them say this... btw, to STAY on target, sea stars do not have brains, so how do they retain the forementioned hunting behavior??? (more later... heh heh heh

------------------
Tom <"{{{{>(
(TDWyatt)
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -Plato

[Alice]

Geez Tom, our Moron Clowns must be related.....shallow *salty* gene pool http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
Reefkeeping is my life; I can't afford a hobby too!