Bio Balls/Nitrate factory wet/Dry's and Clams

[TheAquaman]

A discussion on another board brought up the topic of why Bio-Balls were called Nitrate Factory's, and the reason most Reefers have removed the Bio-balls from their sump. The question I have is if your reef tank is stable with Nitrite/Nitrate's near 0, and you add several good sized clams what happens to the nitrification affects of your LR/LS and would it be benifical at that point to consider putting the Bio-balls back into your sump to generate the Nitrates that clams need.

As clams become more and more available and popular to keep as well as reef tank parameters being kept at what we call optimium levels IE nitrite/nitrate around 0 I think we will see more of the General bleaching affect noted in Knops book on clams which says that this affect is caused by a lack of nitrates.

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www.magicnet.net/~jwhite/aquamans.html

You may be capable of great things,
But life consists of small things.

[Alice]

I think you've got a point there; who was it that called clams "the sewers of the ocean?

I know that some people have set up clam tanks, similarly to a refugium, on high nitrate systems like FO and have had good success. Maybe clams would do better in a nutrient rich (er) lagoonal type set up rather than the sparkly clean acro tank.

Just my $.02

~Alice

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Reefkeeping is my life; I can't afford a hobby too!

[Aquaman]

You have a point, especially for the lagoon Tridacnid species. But still some species live and grow to enormous sizes even in the outer reef area where NO3 isn't present in high amounts. I imagine that growth rates might increase with NO3 present but the clams shouldn't suffer without it.

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Aquaman

Given the spectacularly abundant zooxanthellae and bright lit shallow environment, I'd say they have developed a pretty good feeding mechanism, covers a lot of bases. I thought I had read that clam farms in the pacific grow them out using organic ammonia sources, it seems if I recall right that nitrate wasn't their first choice of nitrogen source. Then again given the siphon structure couldn't they utilize at least some micro plankton during stormy periods of reduced lighting and murky water?

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I thought I was me, but we were wrong
email: geeflipr@internetcds.com

[smpolyp]

Aquaman(TheAquaman) you have a point. I have an arguement to that.(since you know me you know I would try to find a way to argue to get as much info as I can). I think there is more invovled than just the intake of nitrate. They may need a more balanced diet. Kinda like acros like a balance of carbs,bi-carbs,strot,mag,ect on the elements. Why not clams on their nutrients nitrate,phosphate,ect. How would we know what their balance is? Since it is mother nature they may automatically consume the appropriate amounts.But are they availible in those amounts? Alot of questions????

[TheAquaman]

I agree Smpolyp, we don't know what their full diet consists of, but it seems established by the experts, IE.. Knop that they do intake nitrate! smpolyp you and I both know that Franks tank the nitrate level is darn near 0, so is my tank! and each clam that died in his tank first showed a bleaching occurance. You also saw the phosphate drop rapidly in his tank. I think that his clams starved, and think mine are starving as well, and it's not from a lack of phosphate, you know what my bio-load is and how much I feed.

I know I have nutrients in my tank, Their should be enough to generate the nitrite/nitrate levels needed but seems something is causing mine to continue to show some bleaching.




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www.magicnet.net/~jwhite/aquamans.html

You may be capable of great things,
But life consists of small things.

[Alice]

Do clams have better success in skimmed tanks or unskimmed? Any evidence, even if it's antecdotal? http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Alice]

Do clams have better success in skimmed tanks or unskimmed? Any evidence, even if it's antecdotal? http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/wink.gif

[smpolyp]

TheAquaman maybe it is time to add nitrate to your system till you get the balls going. Or maye just adding a FO tank to the system.
Alice I would think that it would depend on the water quality. If the system is balanced and lacking no3 and po4 than I would say yes it could help the clam. I would rather add more fish.

[tdwyatt]

ANECTODAL: I have seen and have gathered info on tanks that DO do well with clams, usually those that have both refugia andmoderate numbers of fishes. Info presented at MACNA in Louisville last year seems to support that Acros possible also do better with certain fish populations (ie some types of damsels that use the structure of the acropora for protection and,in return, "poop" and respire CO2 into the structure of the acro to support the zooxanthallae. I am not aware of a similar commensural relationship between fishes and clams, as for the most part, the clams that do the most growth (ie reeftop Great Barrier spp.) seem to for the most part, be in highly competative environments for nitrat and phosphate (with sps spp. in general, amny are burrowing spp that use the crests of reefs to orient themselves as close as possible to the surface). In outr aquaria, we do not know whether there are other factors, such as a missing elemental necessity; or if it is nitrogen vs the amount of light on the reef tops that is the problem. Much to ponder...

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Tom <"{{{{>(
(TDWyatt)
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -Plato

[TheAquaman]

Well, This weekend is setup my refugium weekend anyway! so hopefully that and time shall cure the slight bleaching problem. By the way for those that don't know what I feed, I have 4 tangs, 1 mandaran, 1 flamehawk. I feed 1 8x10 sheet of nori and a generous feeding of New life spectrum each day.

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www.magicnet.net/~jwhite/aquamans.html

You may be capable of great things,
But life consists of small things.

[sohal1]

I work in store and we sell clams. we also have one in our display tank its a derasa around 12 years old or so and we have 2 250watt mh 65k and 3 5foot vho actinic we use a sump and a etss skimmer nitrates are usually around 0 same with phosphate. there are also around 7 or so fish and lots of soft corals all in 125 gallon.
In our clam tank that we sell clams out of we have 1 175w 65k with a sump and etss skimmer. same peramiters. Another suggestion is calcium. They use up a lot
of it so if your calcium alkalinity balance goes askew they tend to have problems that I have noticed but we rarely lose a clam.




[This message has been edited by sohal1 (edited 10-27-2000).]

[smpolyp]

tdwyatt you say that the calms that do the most growth are in a high comp. area for po4 and no3. I would think thier would have to be alot of no3 and po4 to support them. Even if after testing they are near 0. Kinda like a hair algae tank reading o po4. If there were no po4 being produced the hair algae would be gone, but that doesn't mean that there in not po4 getting into the tank. This would show a balanced system so to say.Kinda like the wild may read o for certain things, but does not mean that they arn't any being produced somewhere. Maybe being produced at high levels, but the demand is high so the uptake is high.