Coral Feeding and then some

[cath]

I'm confused http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/confused.gif

I hear from many of you that the way to feed some corals is a good direct squirt with DTs (or somesuch). Then I hear from others (even in Puterbaugh & Borneman) that no direct feeding is needed, but a dose of phytoplankton to the tank is the way to go. Right now I have a colt coral, Red Sea Xenia, a fuzzy shroom, green zooanthid. Not to mention an orange carnation, which I realize now that I should not have ordered.

The carnation is my biggest worry. http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/eek.gif I've heard conflicting advice on lighting and water movement.

Help, please. http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Cath

-La Dolce Vita

[This message has been edited by cath (edited 12-03-2000).]

[Aquaman]

Both opinions on the feeding/no feeding debate are patially correct. Corals which have symbiotic zooxanthelae use the sugars provided by the algea for respiration but they generally need other food sources for growth. Corals in the wild have a constant supply of zooplankton and phytoplankton and many take advantage of it, even the ones which have the symbiotic algea. In our aquariums which have practically no plankton the corals still take advantage of the bits of food floating around when the fish are fed. For many corals which get much of their food from the algea extra feeding is not absolutely necessary with fish present and enough lighting, although occasional direct feedings are still beneficial and help increase growth rates. Phytoplankton is good, and as Alice pointed out it often feeds and encourages the proliferation of zooplankton which then act as a direct feeding source for corals.

The carnation coral is most likely completely dependent on outside food sources since it bears no zooxanthelae, and feeding it will be a challenge. I would recomend contacting hobbyists who have successfully kept these corals for feeding strategies and types of food to use. These corals are a challenge to keep in captivity.

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Aquaman

[Rick O]

Hi Cath,

I did some research on your Carnation. If it is in fact a dendronephthya then the news is not good. According to "The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium" Volume 2: "...belong to the most difficult of all Cnidaria and should, in general, neither be caught nor kept." "They have to be fed almost continuously in aquaria in order to stand a chance of survival."

This is part of the problem with using common names when referring to corals. One book I have refers to a Pectinia as a carnation, which is much easier to keep.

Can you get a pic of the carnation and post it or e-mail it to me? I will try to match it up to some pics I have in reference books.

Rick

[bill-e]

Cath,

The only one you have to worry about feeding is the carnation.

I think it most likely will respond to a puree blended food. Yep, time to stink up the blender.

Very fine blended, frozen in a ziplock bag. then defrost a chunk in a little tank water(I use the 3oz plastic dixie cups), suck it up in a baster (you can attach a tube to the end of the baster for added reach. I have a dowel and tube which extend mine another 14")
Then turn off your pumps, and slowly blow some of the food over it. let it grab it, then blow again until ur out of food. doing each squirt about 5 min apart will assure that it's able to grab alot of what you're feeding.

And dont forget to turn your pumps back on when ur thru http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Bill Esposito
bespo@cereal.mv.com
JAqua for the AquaController 2
http//cereal.mv.com/jaqua.html
My Reef Page
http//cereal.mv.com/reef
The box said "Use Win 95 or better", I chose better so I run OS/2!

[Phill]

what Bill said -- don't forget to turn the pumps back on. I forgot one night and didn't notice till the next night - it is amazing how fast diatoms can cover your glass.

Phill

[Alice]

Gee, I've never forgot to turn my pumps back on http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/wink.gif I finally wised up and set the oven timer every time I turn off the pumps!

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Reefkeeping is my life; I can't afford a hobby too!

[cath]

Wot, me forget to turn the pumps back on? Not l'il cath http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/tongue.gif

I know you've prolly given the recipe for the fishy shake before, but please post it again.

Thanks for all the advice!

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Cath

-La Dolce Vita

[This message has been edited by cath (edited 12-03-2000).]

[Alice]

Cath;

There are a couple of different corals that are sold under the name "Carnation" but judging from the description you gave me it's most likely Dendronepthya which are extremely difficult to care for as you now know http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/frown.gif

You're getting different advice on lighting and water movement because the corals are found in lighted areas as well as in darker, more protected areas. These corals don't use light to fuel zooxannthellae; the lighting needs are rather indiffernt therefore, although they don't do well in intense light like MH.

As for feeding, I'm not sure if they actually feed on the phyto or on the critters that the phyto feeds. There is a distinction there....it's been said that the phyto itself isn't used by that many corals but acutally feeds zooplankton that the corals then feed on. I've read references that say dendronepthya feed on small particulate food and critters as large as baby brine shrimp. I don't know how much research is actually out there on feeding and care of these corals so you may want to do a search on them on www.reefs.org and on www.reefcentral.com in the "Next Level" forum that discusses hard to care for animals.

Sorry if I've confused you more than I;ve helped you!

~Alice

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Reefkeeping is my life; I can't afford a hobby too!

[This message has been edited by Alice (edited 12-03-2000).]

[horge]

Hi Cath,

Hope this isn't too late...
Dendronephthya spp. chows on 90+% phytoplankton, based on gut content analyses.
(Fabricius, et al, 1995)

Unless you can ensure a near-constant wash of phytoplankton over the animal, it is best avoided.

You can feed for now, but short of returning it, you can try to encourage the native generation of phytoplankton via stands of spore-generating macroalgae, possibly in a refugium (to discourage eventual algal overgrowth of the very animal you're trying to care for --or you could just prune the macro back).

Natively-generated phytoplankton and semi-direct feeding of phyto/phyto-substitutes seems to be the best ticket to keeping these stunning, soft beasties.

HTH

...back to wet-nursing...

[cath]

Thanks for your input, Horge! I figured you had some first hand knowledge of Carnations.
Right now, mine looks more like orange broccoli. I never see it open. Also, should I place it with the stalk standing upright? Is any of this making sense http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/wink.gif

I've got to get some pix of my tank!!!

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Cath

-La Dolce Vita

[This message has been edited by cath (edited 12-04-2000).]

[horge]

Hi again, Cath

Upright, upside-down, sideways. They don't really seem to care as long as they're well-fed. You can see them in all sorts of orientations in the wild. That indifference extends to lighting as well: the reason they are usually found in darker places is that there, they don't have to compete for food/real estate with zooxanthellar corals and light-luvin algae.

Regarding your animal.
Prolonged 'deflation' and non-deployment of feeding structures can mean irritation, malnutrition or even parasitic/infectious disease. If it's shedding spicules (those siliceous white needles, then it is in severe decline.

Assduming the animal isn't in terminal condition:
Check your water chem for something out of whack: they seem to particularly detest pH spikes, and aren't fond of water warmer than (frantic conversion from Celsius ensues)...ehrmm about 80F. Check for hostility from neighboring critters (excess sliming of corals, etc.)

If nothing's really amiss with your params, just give it time to adjust to the 'smell' of your tank. Later, a good whiff of phytoplankton, drifted towards the animal, ought to provoke some response. Once it gets used to chowing on it, you can more specifically target it with direct squirts. All this while you get your spore-spewing macroalgae set up.

HTH --I might not have time to check in on this thread again for some time.. No rest for the wicked, hehe http://www.thereeftank.com/ubb/smile.gif