closed up buttons....

[thefatman]

well if you have been following the purchase of my button polyps that i thought were zoos, you'll know they STILL haven't opened...


they have been about 1/2 open for a few days. but todya they are closed up tighter than a .....well, they are closed pretty tight.

they look like they are making fists they are closed so tight..

is it possible that they are too close to the lights (they are mid high in the tank)

also, found a new saltwater storetoday. exclusively saltwater.. .very knowledgable people.. they know abotu the other lfs that i have been buying my stuff from.. (the one where the guy JUST bought the place in feb, and isn't very knowledgable)

well anyway, they said he has been having major problems and complaints from lost customers, because stuff is dying and he doesnt do returns.

new lfs also informed me, that owner of other lfs has never had a slatwater tank, till he bought the place. basically he jsut figured saltwater was popular, and an easy way to make money, so he bought an existing store from someone else.

anyway, they told me that i need to chekc his water, because likely he lied to me abotu his parameters, and my buttons may be in "reverse shock" because now they are in good water.

so i went there and asked him for a sample because i jsut wanted to compare how close our water is, for acclimation purposes... well, his ammonia is 3, his nitrites are 4, hold on, it gets better, his nitrates are 60!, and his ph is 7.8 !!!!! and his salinity is 1.026!!

so the new lfs told me my guys are in reverse shock and may take a while to adjust and open. but that they should have been open a long time ago!

any thoughts.. basically i jsut want to make sure that the new lfs is not jsut bad mouthin a competeter, but i did the water test myself at home, using the same kits i use on my tank.. and that to me is horrible water!

i've also decided i wont be buying any live goods there anymore!

[uurt]

Jay, you might want to try diff. places/heights in the tank and flow. Might take a few times to make em happy,
HTH Lee

[thefatman]

yep. done that twice already... it's been since monday.

guess i'll try again today in a new spot

thanks lee

[MontanaRocknReefer]

Jay sometimes I have move a couple of corals a half dozen times and all of a sudden they opened quite beautiful and were happy and so was I. Jay we will worry for you and you just enjoy for awhile OK?

[Tpeck]

Hey TFM,

I have been following your tank, seeing that it is new, take a deep breath and let it stabilize. Do your research, pick the paramerters that work for your tank and equipment. For example: on my 75g I never followed my Ph that close, had salinity at about 1.022, and had chiller set to 75. My tank looked great but was not growing...if you know what I mean. I read lots of archive material on settings. Changed salinity to 1.024-1.025, temp 81 and Ph 8.3 as high as 8.6. I did all these changes very slowly so It wouldnt shock my live stock. Since these changes my tank has responded in just 3 weeks. I had them stabilized right b4 I went to Europe, came back Friday after 2 weeks gone and cant believe the growth and movement that has taken place.

These settings work in my tank with my equipment...this works for me, others will tell you diffent settings that work for them as well. Pick where you want your settings, get them to the set points and let run stabilized for 6 months. You should be able to tell the reaction by how your livestock responds.

As for lfs, they are a great source for Q & A but always verify what they tell you on your own and you will be amazed what you will find. I did the same, came across a DIY Nilsen reactor and top off. Read all about it, made it and my tank loves it. It raises Ca a little high but can see every day what it is doing for the tank and Ph stability.

Good luck

[thefatman]

thanks johnny as long as SOMEONE is worrying.. i can relax for a while then

thanks tpeck.. good advice.. i know there is no ground in stone rules.. which is why i wanted to confirm here.. plus it bothers me when a business blatantly bad mouths a competitor.. you just cant be sure if it's honesty, or greed.

[Mrs Smith]

Tpeck has some very good points...

Just sit tight. Zoos are tough - they'll be fine. And if not, next time I go through Ohio, I'll bring you some of mine. Can't kill 'em.

Danielle

[Tpeck]

one other thought,

I had a Heniochus that would pick the heads off my buttons. I got rid of him about 3-4 months ago....the polyps are now huge but for long time always seemed "pulled in" when in fact fish was eating them. Anything in your tank that would munch them?

[Mickadee]

I dont think the comments were unjustified though by the new LFS you found. sounds more like he wants your buisness but is telling you why he thinks the other store isnt that good. and I know that LFS water usually is worse than what keep our tanks at but with ammonia in the tank and all the other readings there is something going on.

so i went there and asked him for a sample because i jsut wanted to compare how close our water is, for acclimation purposes... well, his ammonia is 3, his nitrites are 4, hold on, it gets better, his nitrates are 60!, and his ph is 7.8 !!!!! and his salinity is 1.026!!

these readings would be all I needed not to go back into the store till the problem was corrected. I give everybody the benifit of doubt but when you have readings like that you know as well as anyone here that has a tank up and running what starts to happen and what we as tank owners start to do to correct the problem.

IMO
Mike

[MontanaRocknReefer]

Well 1.026 salinity is not all that bad!!

[Flatfish]

I'd like to second tpeck's advice. What I've foud is that it's very easy to PO buttons. Introduce change to the system, no matter how small you think it may be, and they'll shut for a week. Something as simple as adding livestock, dosing, changing bulbs or a water change will tick them off. One of the biggest things that I found they hate is a change in temp. More than a two degree flux and bam, they close and won't re-open until things are stable for some time.

Buttons are very hardy and survive the worst, but keeping them looking good is a chanllenge if you like to play with your system. Like tpeck mentioned, let the system sit and stabilize, stick to just light maintenance and they'll come back.

On the LFS. Bad mouthing a competetor is just a sign of bad business attitude. As a service provider you never know who you're talking to so don't be negative. So what if an lfs is amature. Someday they may not be.Someday they may kick your but. All it takes is a change in staff.

We has an lfs here that we really great. The owner was very active with his customers and serviced most of the commercial setups, and made a business from making regular house calls. He retired and sold out. The new owners did nother but complain how they were getting beat up by mail-order and how most of their customers didn't know what they were doing in that market. As a knowledgable customer, you know that got old fast. I did may part, but they alienated so many of the best keepers in town that they didn't last more than a year. Bad mouthing is just bad business. I don't mind telling the offenders so.

[Mrs Smith]

Originally posted by MontanaRocknReefer
Well 1.026 salinity is not all that bad!!

Missed that one. Yep, that's ok. Good catch Johnny. (Our tanks are at about 1.025 - and sometimes accidentally higher. 1.026 is not bad.)

Danielle

[Doug1]

1.026 is OK its the ammonia (any detectable is a NO NO) and the high nitrate readings.
The new store sounds like he's trying to open your eyes about the other guy. If this one specializes in SW he may know stuff, no guarentee. MY acid test for LFS is slip internet into a discussion. If they freak out and go ona rant about how internet is killing reefing, etc, I am outta there.
Like I said time and time again, as reef hobbiest, we need to be finicky consumers and have the BS detector on all the time. We are trying to help people sort thru the hype and BS from LFS and set them on a path that will allow them to enjoy the hobby while saving $ and animal lives. Remember I aint trying to sell yah nothing

[thefatman]

i didnt think 1.026 was that bad either as i am running 1.0245 but the new lfs had told me i should run no higher that 1.022 so that's when i freaked out..

internet! hahahahah oh that really got them going, as the discussion did come up!! i thought they were going to keel over and have heart attacks when i mentioned that i was in the process of removing my bio balls. they almsot crapped themselves. no no no dont do that. you NEED the bio balls! when i explained the reasoning behind removing them, and how the live rock and sand wil ldo the job much better and more effeciently, they said "you heard that garbage on the internet didn't you!" "bio balls and wet drys are waht make this hobby easy." thsoe pople that say that stuff on the internet are just trying to get people to stop buying stuff at local stores, stuff that is very necessary!"

lol

then when i mentioned that after my tank upgrade i would be buying MH's.. ohhh man... here we go again. that is not the way to go.. you DO NOT want mh, they will make your tank hot, and your electric bil lwill be sky high.. when i said my electric bill is the least of my concerns, they continued with barraging me i nan effort to convince me that power compacts are the way to go because htey are not as hot and are much mroe effeicent etc....

they also recommended i NOT put in a larger sump or refugium...because it will cost me more for salt !! and make the tank much harder to care for, and make it harder to keep stabile water parameters with the extra water... ummmm i think they got that backwards!!!

and the kicker......

DO NOT under any circumstances use RO/DI water.. it removes TOO MUCH from the water... IF you feel that you must use it, then we recommend that you also get "ro safe" and add that to your water, to replace some of the stuff that the unit will remove!!!! oh god i almost peed my pants! so i said ok, what do you recommend... just straight tap water, adda detox water conditioner to it, and stress coat and stress zyme.

oh, i get it, so they do not want me to use somethign i can buy online (ro/di unit) because they wnt me to buy a bunch of chemicals from them

and on top of all that, they sold me mislabeled anthellia, and horribly bad mouthed a competeter... the lfs i have been goign to, yeah he is new, and may very well have less knowledge than i do at this point, but he is also extrememly helpfull, and is now consulting books in an effort to learn more, and has never once (in my precense) bad mouthed another store.

[Alice]

Jay, if the guy is willing to learn, there is hope More than one of us here have helped to shepard along an LFS owner. We need LFS so let's train em right LOL

Have you convinced him yet that he should visit us here on TRT?