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Old 09-29-2005, 06:53 PM   #1
wigglejaggles
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PH question


Hey Now all,

I just found this forum after finding a link to it from reef central. After looking around I can't believe I haven't been here before! This seems like a great place.

Anyhow, I have just started a 40gallon breeder barebottom Dr. Jerels style. I have been maintaining this system for two weeks. My KH has been between 9.0-9.6, trates and trites 0 of course, and calcium at 500.

My Ph has been a steady 8. Is this ok? I read in Sprungs reef aquarium book that one hsouldnt ever let PH get below 8.2 for this inhibits calcification. I raised my kh to 10 today and PH still stayed the same. I have been thinking about dosing kalkwasser...wondering if this would help.

I am using r/o water, skimmer and sump with aggressive circulation and a single ended halide 20k radium. Not sure ifthis willhelp/

what do you guys think?

thanks!

take care,
Jared
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Old 09-29-2005, 07:02 PM   #2
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Welcome to TRT!




I don't know much about chemistry.. someone will help u shortly... My ph is low too, around 8.0
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Old 09-29-2005, 07:30 PM   #3
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8.0 to 8.4 is ok but better is 8.1 to 8.4 and welcome to TRT


It will change during different times of the day and night, But if You can keep it in that area You will be ok, no lower
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Old 09-29-2005, 07:31 PM   #4
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Welcome to TRT!!

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Old 09-29-2005, 08:46 PM   #5
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is your 8.0 in the am or pm? I pH of 8.0 in the am is perfectly fine... the only time you should get really concerned is if/when your pH drops to/below 7.8 and stays there consistantly. Try testing at different times of the day to see the differences (early morning and late evening/after lights have been on all day)
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Old 09-29-2005, 08:57 PM   #6
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Welcome to TRT and if you drip kals it will help.
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Old 09-29-2005, 09:01 PM   #7
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I think 7.8 is getting way to low, I think You really need to keep it 8.0 and higher, But then I don't check it all that much as I am always pretty good on the scale at 8.2 Most everytime I check.


I just did a check and it is 8.2. I will check in the Am and let you know what i get after the main lights are outand the refuge light have been on all night. But for the last month I have checked it and always at 8.2 maybe 8.1 a few time, as i recall.
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Old 09-29-2005, 09:01 PM   #8
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most reefs require 8.2- 8-4 I keep mine at 8-3.too low of ph or too high can create health problems in you stock
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Old 09-29-2005, 09:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unleashed
most reefs require 8.2- 8-4 I keep mine at 8-3.too low of ph or too high can create health problems in you stock

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Old 09-29-2005, 10:40 PM   #10
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thanks


hey now all!

Thanks for the warm welcome and replies.

I have been chekcing my ph mostly in the evening. I'll check several times tomorrow and report back!

thanks!

take care,
Jared
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Old 09-29-2005, 11:27 PM   #11
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Welcome to TRT Jared (an our other new poster, Unleashed!)

I saw your numbers, and the low pH of your system is allowing you to keep your calcium and alk at the levels you posted, so I don't doubt that the numbers are a true reflection of your values. pH in marine aquaria is primariy a reflection of the
CO2 content of the water column, and to some extent the alkalinity (not a very big part though, although it may reflect where your pH will go as the alk content buffers the water column. High alkalinity tends to drive pH to 8.2 or so depending on
CO2 content in the water column (however, the immediate effect will most likely be a drive u in p, followed by a gradual decline back to 8.2 as the alkalinity dissociates into its constituents and whatever results in equiibria of the different crbonate species are demonstrated in the tank (ie., carbonate may precipitate Calcium as it is formed from bicarbonate (and bicarbonate may aldo precipitate high levels of calcium, but it is more soluble than the carbonate species of this reaction), resulting in a gradual drop in both ca and akalinity as equilibrium is attained for the suersaturation quotient for that articular set of conditions.). If your pH stays at 8.0, and there is no issue with your probe or meter, then high CO2 is most likely the cause.

Do you have a Ca reactor? excess CO2 adjustment will result in high C2 and moderately high Alkalinity, but pH in the range youre experiencing.
this requires an adjustment in your delivery rate for the
cO2 to the reactor, a simple but sometimes tedious task.


Is your house air conditioned and kept closed all summer? Is the aquarium located in an area with a large number of people (dormitory or classroom, for example, or where you work if there is an office environment)? In the winter, use of gas logs, gas furnaces, or all year round with a gas stove and/or oven may drive up your indoor environment's pCO2, and as seawater is at almost instantaneous equilibrium with the atmosphere in the presence of good surface area with turbuance, will consequentoly drive up pCO2 of your ASW in the tank, driving down pH.


Systems with glass covers, tight hoods and stands, covered sumps, inadequate circulation, or deep tanks with a relativey small surface area in relationship to total volume are apt to have these same conditions arise. Sometimes the rest of the house will be fine, but location in a seldom used room or a basement may allow
CO2 to accumulate as well. Systems with large populations of fishes may experience these same conditions, but this is most often remedied with good circulation without too much trouble.

Think of conditions that might contribute to either excess CO2 roduction, poor exchange of CO2, or conditions that allow for accumulation of CO2 as probable causes for your current issue.


HTH, and again,
Welcome to TRT.

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Old 09-30-2005, 12:03 AM   #12
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Hey Now,

Tom excellent post! Thank you so much. Ok so let me give you more info. The tank is in an upstairs apartment. It's in our living room cornered underneath the air conditioner! The first week the tank was setup I ran the air 24/7! I do not use any reactors, and I do not have any fish in the tank. So those causes arent to blame. I haven't had to run the a/c the last few days but it looks like we have found our culprit. I read an article while searching about co2 causing low ph and the article suggested I open a window and have a fan drawing in fresh outside air. I will attempt this tomorrow. The kitchen is directly across from the living room area in our apartment but the stove runs electric, however I have noticed that after cooking my skimmer is affected. Hehee boy oh boy makes me think twice about the importance of tank placement!
Ok so seems like I have excess co2 in my tank! Lets see if we can remedy this by having a fan blow fresh air in. thankfully we have a balcony off the living room with sliding doors.
Thanks again for your help!

Oh and on a side note I use salifert tests kits which I usually trust.

take care,
Jared
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Old 09-30-2005, 01:12 AM   #13
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Open your windows! Its great weather this time of year here!
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Old 09-30-2005, 11:07 PM   #14
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if opening the windows is an issue, try running a 1" diameter hose to the outside and connect the inside end to the air intake for the skimmer, this would be great means of introducing more outside air rather than using the CO2 laden interior air, and the skimmer has a tremendous amount of surface are to exchqange through the surface of each bubble.

btw, how DO you measure your pH, and have you done the borax test if you use a probe?
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